Jerusalem’s ultra-Orthodox stand firm

sorcey’s comment 25 Jul 09, 11:34am

So it’s a group in the Middle East that:
- Despises it’s neighbours
- Has it’s security guaranteed by others
- Is lavishly funded beyond all common sense, reason or productivity
- Breaks laws frequently, without any consequences
- Resorts to violence to get it’s way.

The parallels with Israel are fairly obvious. Maybe they’re just copying their state’s actions, in miniature.

Israel’s barrier to progress

sorcey’s comment 22 Jul 09, 9:40am

The only thing currently in the best interests of the Palestinian people is a renewed armed resistance. After laying down their arms, the only thing Palestinian leaders have to show for it is increased settlement building, European leaders ignoring Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza and increasing economic cooperation, and the new US administration simultaneously demanding Israel stop and assuring Israel there will be no consequences whatsoever if Israel continues.

Pretending there’s a peaceful solution to millions of Israelis wanting to drive the Palestinians out, with the rest passively accepting this, is ludicrous – especially when Israelis are lavishly rewarded for their actions.

Cellcom’s cynical commercial

sorcey’s comment 20 Jul 09, 12:09pm

rayaudrey:

Most Israelis want a two state solution to the problem – many polls prove this

No, most Israelis approve of the wall circling Palestinian areas choking them off from each other. They also approve of the occupation, bombing Gazan civilians and the Gaza siege, which kills children and those who need medical treatment outside Gaza.

Isreaeis approve of the 1.1 state solution – perpetual occupation and oppression dressed up as a two state solution. Most Israelis oppose the two state solution – they don’t want it, they have voted against it for the last 20 years and probably will oppose it for the next 20.

You should look up the bantuastans. “Limited self rule” is what Bibi is always advocating – which is what the bantustans were.

Cellcom’s cynical commercial

sorcey’s comment 20 Jul 09, 10:14am

To some Israelis, the wall is a national disgrace; to others, it is a necessary evil; to others still, it is a symbol of strength and security for every citizen of the state.

To the vast majority of Isaelis it’s a desirable solution and a stepping stone to an Arab-free Greater Israel. Pretending otherwise is lying to the British public.

Besides, the ad says what most Israelis believe – Palestinians are happy in their little Bantustans.

Israel and America: stopping the settlements

sorcey’s comment 26 Jun 09, 12:58pm

Berchmans, you forgot the 6-day war – Israel attacked after it had been assured by it’s intelligence services, and the intelligence services of the US and UK, that no Arab countries were planning to attack it and that all the surrounding Arab countries combined were inferior in strength to Israel’s army. Although, given the goal was the acquisition of land, maybe not “unavoidable” in that respect….

A phoney war on Israel’s soldiers

sorcey’s comment 22 Jun 09, 11:15pm

I don’t get it. Israelis and their apologists really don’t see anything wrong with soldiers all over the place. What is Israel, a police state? And this is, according to ONeil70, part of Israeli culture? Do Israelis become terrified when they’re in a city which doesn’t have soldiers everywhere? I take it back – not creepy and scary but very very creepy and scary.

Netanyahu’s gift to Lieberman

sorcey’s comment 19 Jun 09, 1:44pm

Jubbler, I’m saying that firing rockets on civilians is an expression of Palestinian (yes, you conflate Palestinians with all Arabs, probably deeply racist but that’s your problem) resistance against the occupation, which is brought on by the Jewish state’s belief that non-Jews don’t have the human rights of land ownership, self-determination or access to medical care.

I’m sure you’ll present some half-baked idiotic excuse for what Israel does, but then I’m sure you don’t object to what Israel does, as long as Arabs are oppressed.

Obama’s speech in Cairo: getting the right audience

sorcey’s comment 03 Jun 09, 6:30pm (about 10 hours ago)

And, I have to add, what happens when Israel decides that Greater Israel includes South Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? Do the Arab states have to keep ethnically cleansing themselves and their populations while Israel wants to grow?

What should Israel do about Iran?

sorcey’s comment 03 Jun 09, 1:56pm (about 14 hours ago)

Israelis really don’t get it, do they? Constantly at war with their neighbours, they can’t think of any country that doesn’t want the same thing that they do – expansion, massacring children, occupation and destruction. Sad, really, but it’s an insight into the average Israeli’s thoughts and attitude.

Will Obama be Netanyahu’s downfall?

sorcey’s comment 02 Jun 09, 9:08pm

Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but Obama – if he even means what he says right now – will fail miserably and completely. Remember, it’s not just the “right wing” Israelis and the current “right wing” government that wants settlement expansion – sorry, I meant “natural growth.” The overwhelming majority of Israelis across the political spectrum, from the pseudo-left to the far far right want settlement expansion. Labour, Likud, Kadima, all want it. Even the more leftist small parties feel that all land Israel has ethnically cleansed in the West Bank should remain in Jewish hands forever.

Pretending this is an Israeli right vs US left issue is missing the point – this is a US left vs Israelis across their whole political spectrum. Bibi will get support across the board in Israel in an effort to keep settlements expanding.

The Palestinian village of hope

sorcey’s comment 27 May 09, 5:30pm

MattKennardCIF: “In terms of violent resistance, in my opinion it’s often counter-productive because it gives a huge propaganda tool to the Israelis to obscure the crimes of the occupation, which are truly awful.”

You’ve written a great article, but non-violent resistance on the part of the Palestinians is doomed to fail. Israelis are fully in support of expansion and occupation. No amount of non-violent protest will ever get Israelis to stop expanding the occupation. When Palestinians don’t violently resist, Israelis can be as violent as they like and there is no media coverage (e.g. “peaceful” Rabin’s order to break Palestinian bones. Only when Palestinians violently resist is there media coverage. Given the only way to rectify the power difference between Palestinians and Israelis is to get the West to stop lavishly funding Israel, and the only way to do that is to make it an issue which embarrasses Western governments supporting Israel, forcing them to stop.

There is hope for Barack and Bibi

sorcey’s comment 07 May 09, 1:26pm

Petra, darling, I discover you’re extremely liberal with the truth, misrepresent history, morality and law, and you respond with both a smear and more lies? Very very poor.

“Most interesting, sorcey, that you would like to contemplate expelling Jews from…”
No, I said these arguments will come back to haunt you, as you are denying human rights to a hated other. I understand that you’re grasping at straws and desperate to avoid the truth, but this is low even for you.

“There are several studies based on historical research and the relevant documentation that show that the Palestinian refugees of 1947/48 fled for a variety of reasons…”
The reasons they fled are irrelevant under international law. The point was that these were their homes and property, and no one was entitled to relieve them of their property because they happened to be the wrong race or religion, and especially not because of the greed of the new settlers from Europe.

I’m ignoring the rest of your post because it’s the usual mixture of lies, half-truths and irrelevancies. The core point is that you’re not allowed to depopulate land even if you’re European and chosen by god.

(I can’t help adding, for completeness, how over-used and under-substantiated the allegations you’re using are. Each has been proven to be false, and yet you still claim they’re valid…)

There is hope for Barack and Bibi

sorcey’s comment 06 May 09, 11:13pm

Petra: “I told you before, I never mentioned the term…”
Where? Is it a secret post only you can see?

“…and I explained upthread why Israel wants to keep the settlement blocks.”
Your explanation, as I proved, lacked any relationship with the truth or even common sense.

“WRT Annapolis, it is true that the document did not restrict the negotiations to territory…”
In fact, contrary to your claims, it was meant to solve everything. Out of curiosity, why did you claim otherwise? Did you honestly think we don’t know?

“…the idea was to produce at least an agreement on borders, i.e. this was the minimum goal.”
Invisible writing again? Go on, please provide a link.

“WRT RoR, it is not a right in any meaningful legal sense of the word. Ask the millions and millions of refugees that had to flee their homes…”
Why do you think they wrote the law? In order to watch it happen again and again?

UN resolutions, even ones Israel doesn’t like, are legally binding. Israel even accepted that it should accept the refugees back, but they didn’t want to, it was too racist. It tried to get the ROR off the table permanently by accepting back 1.5% of the refugees it created, as long as the rest would go away forever without compensation. This was one of the first “generous offers” the Arabs refused.

What you and those very very few non-Israelis who believe that might is right and Israel is always right don’t understand that your arguments will come back to haunt you. You’re saying that Palestinians evicted from their homes by Israel don’t have any rights. Can we say the same to Jews living in the UK or France? Do you really feel Europe should be able to expel all Jews from it’s shores at will? And if not, why not? Isn’t it the same as you and the Palestinians?

Israel-Palestine is already a de facto single state

sorcey’s comment 29 Apr 09, 12:46pm

This is a remarkably good article and definitely food for thought. My main objection to the one-state solution has always been that Palestinians don’t want to be permanently relegated to third-class citizenship with no human rights, which is what an ideal one-state solution would be to Israelis. Palestinians don’t want to be treated as Isareli Arabs are forever, even though currently their treatment is far worse. Should a one-state solution emerge I suspect that the Israeli security and government apparatus will decide to treat all non-Jews as Palestinians are treated now.

Boycott this Israeli settlement builder

sorcey’s comment 28 Apr 09, 11:12pm

Abtalyon:

I recommend that all boycotters stop using computers and mobile phones completely, not because these may or may not have been made in Israel…

Good, because they weren’t. Intel chips are made in SE Asia, mobile phones use SE Asian components, and please don’t start telling us that Nokia, Sony Ericsson and Samsung are Israeli companies. Really, it’s pathetic.

…but because these devices depend on the RSA cryptography system, invented at the Weizmann Institute, for the secure exchange of information.

Groan. Firstly, no it isn’t. Computers don’t in any way rely on RSA except a small subset of programs for authentication. It’s public key encryption. Secondly mobile phones don’t use RSA at all. Unless you’re holding a mobile to your ear and reading what the little token has written on it. Finally, the RSA system was invented at MIT. This has not been renamed “the Weizmann Institute” to my knowledge, and I doubt it ever will be. (Interestingly, it was also invented by a British Mathematician, four years before the trio at MIT invented it, but it was promptly classified top secret, and then forgotten about. Sigh.)

Now you’re attempting to steal credit. Is there anything a zionist won’t steal?

What did Jeremy Bowen do wrong?

sorcey’s comment 17 Apr 09, 9:46pm

petertehungarian:

…do you agree that the situation there was insufferable, Israel’s reaction was justified and the pictures from Gaza are the consequences of the actions of Hamas?

And once again the Israeli response – bomb, steal, kill with no hesitation or restraint. If they shoot back, then the situation is intolerable and the violence Israel launches is automatically justified.

Getting a typical Israeli to admit that starving and killing a group just because they’re not Jewish is wrong will take rather more time than I have here, but I’m still trying for some reason.

Israel’s cultural responsibility

sorcey’s comment 07 Apr 09, 5:52pm

In the best traditions of Pesach, Israel has at short notice imposed a brutal closure on all Palestinians in the West Bank. They will let some food through, though. You can feel the love.

Trouble brewing in Jerusalem

sorcey’s comment 21 Mar 09, 11:22pm

I find the implicit acceptance of Israel’s actions by so many people here revealing. Israeli mayors have for many years openly declared their objectives of Judaising Jerusalem, from demolishing Arab homes (more Arab homes are demolished every year than Jewish ones, even though there are more building violations detected in Jewish homes in Jerusalem) to refusing to issue any building permits to Arabs to building homes that are for Jews only.

Somehow all these facts, openly acknowledged and declared as desirable by most Israelis, are forgotten when the situation has to be defended by Israeli zealots like Sydk and “The Voice of Israe.” It’s funny, really, but in London deciding someone’s home must be demolished because of their ethnicity is racism, pure and simple. In Israel, some would have us believe that it’s justice.

The lessons of Purim

sorcey’s comment 10 Mar 09, 8:16pm

“Their wilfully-ignorant stance hands it to the antisemites on a plate…”

What f*cking antisemites? The ones that hide under every rock, and wait to spring out at you when you least expect it?

It was a sane article until then.

Hillary in the Holy Land

sorcey’s comment 09 Mar 09, 10:47pm

My post disappeared. Well well well.

Geary, I doubt Palestinians want any more joint ventures with Israel – the last major one left 400 children dead and a lot of very happy Israelis.

The current “joint venture” with Israel is proceeding apace, with Israelis taking more and more Palestinian land, while violently attacking anyone who resists this.

No to “joint ventures” which leave Palestinians homeless and penniless, allowing Israel to continue expanding and peddling it’s racist ideology.

Not Durban all over again

sorcey’s comment 06 Mar 09, 5:09pm

Again and again we’re informed that an ideology based around the right to systematically ethnicly cleanse of one group in favour of another group which hold themselves to be superior is not racist.

Really? Killing one people because another people are ‘better’ is acceptable?

Hamas no, human rights yes

sorcey’s comment 19 Feb 09, 8:06am

Hammas are a product of the brutality that Israelis inflict upon Palestinians. It’s not surprising that it’s got some of the aspects of that brutal policy and attitude. However, comparing it to the malignancy and hatred that Israel displays is deliberately misleading. Not even in their most fond dreams do Hammas think they will one day carry out slaughters like Israel’s slaughter in Gaza.

Pretending Israel and Hammas are on a par is misleading; attempting to paint Hammas as an ogre equal in size and viciousness to Israel is just an attempt to ignore or justify the viciousness and evil that Israel routinely displays.

Gaza: the world looks away

sorcey’s comment 10 Feb 09, 3:33pm

Thanks for bringing the Panorama piece on Gaza to my attention. It was very moving.

The more time goes by, the more reports come from Israel, the more obvious it is that Israelis just want to kill Palestinians. That seems to be the true cause of the war.

We all need a home

sorcey’s comment 07 Feb 09, 6:44am

zamaek: “The area (0.01 percent of the Middle East) was designated as the Jewish homeland – ergo Jews had a right to become citizens there.”

Designated by people who didn’t live here and at the expense of people who didn’t live there. I know that you don’t care about the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians expelled by racist rabid zionists, but that’s your failing, not the failing of Palestinians to peacefully suicide.

“…Meantime Arabs have 22 states…”

Why exactly don’t “Arabs” have the right of ownership or abode? What about them makes you reject their human rights to own property or live peacefully in their homes? Please, do tell us. What makes them sub-human in your eyes?

So sad, so racist, and so wrong, all at the same time.

Fuelling the cycle of hate

sorcey’s comment 27 Jan 09, 4:57pm

“”Why have the schools in Gaza been shut down?” sang the crowd. “Because all the children were gunned down!” came the answer.”

I doubt this will take over from the usual Israeli chant of “Kill the Arabs.” Far more inventive than the usual football supporter, though.

“The one message that is being conveyed to children on both sides of this fray is that the other side is a bloodthirsty monster.”

With 85% support amongst Jewish Israelis for the actions of the IDF, including bombing the UN and butchering children, we can safely put the ridiculous notion that Israelis are completely unlike bloodthirsty monsters to rest.

Israel wanted a humanitarian crisis

sorcey’s comment 20 Jan 09, 4:05pm

I find Israel’s defenders are getting ever more desperate and, frankly, loathsome as more time and more evidence is revealed.

“However, Hamas quickly realized that they would be better off to tell their fighters to take off their uniforms and fight in civilian clothes”

So all those babies removed their uniforms, but the IDF correctly identified them and killed them? Well done to the IDF – the most effective ‘baby militant’ killers in history.

“There is no doubt in my mind that the IDF mistakenly killed civilians”

I wonder if there’s any doubt in her mind that the IDF deliberately killed civilians? Or that Israelis in general – 80% of them – support the IDF deliberately killing civlians, as long as they’re Arabs.

Utterly loathsome.

A return to square one

sorcey’s comment 20 Jan 09, 12:22am

usini: “I must admit that the one thing that is pissing me off at the moment is we are hearing about how much of the Saudi money, or British money or EU money etc etc is going to be spent rebuilding Gaza; and nothing about money from the bastards that blew the place to shit.”

It’s worse than you think. Israel currently demands that all UN materials and aid that goes to Gaza is bought in Israel, making the occupation more profitable for Israelis. The same will apply for the rebuilding – materials will be bought in Israel or Israeli-owned West Bank companies or not at all.

They’re going to make a profit from killing children and civilians. “Infanticide for profit” would be the Israeli motto, if it weren’t already “A good Arab is a dead Arab.”

British Jews and Israel: a new relationship?

sorcey’s comment 14 Jan 09, 1:09pm

Personally I’m wondering how many more Palestinian children have to die before they get upset enough to write – wait for it – a second letter.

I’ve also noted that Britain’s Cheif Rabbi didn’t sign this letter. So much for ‘saying yes to peace’ – or was that only for one side?

So what if Israel uses the internet?

sorcey’s comment 13 Jan 09, 10:40am

ElbowToe, Ignoring the unsubstantiated allegations regarding Israeli Arabs and Tel Aviv being a purely Jewish city, I have to scoff at the idea that Israelis are saddened by their “forced” mass infanticide. They, and you, seem quite ecstatic that children are being butchered by the hundreds. Just read Haaretz or JPost. Very few people in Israel want the infanticide to end.

Secondly, quoting Golda Meir, she who could not see a Palestinian anywhere, attempts to present an image of Israelis reluctantly butchering Arabs, crying while doing it. This mirage is belied by the enthusiasm with which Israelis are pursuing their goal, and the frequency with which they go out of their way to butcher children.

We heard all the same lies in the Lebanon war – Israel doesn’t want to murder civilians, but it can’t seem to help itself… And all non-Jews are fair game.

Europe must take the initiative

sorcey’s comment 05 Jan 09, 3:50pm

The usual crowd bleating the usual things – “Israel is always right” and “Palestinians deserve to be killed.” I just hope that those so keen on killing children and butchering civilians will one day be beneficiaries of a regime as dedicated to human rights and life as Israel is.

A diplomatic thaw

sorcey’s comment 11 Dec 08, 9:00pm

canadaneil: “The comments on this thread are unique. It is the first time I have seen reference to a British and Australian “Israel lobby” as having any particular influence.”

You’re right of course. The fact that the entire front bench in Labour are members of Labour Friends of Israel is irrelevant. David Cameron is a member of Conservative Friends of Israel, are are most or all of the Tory shadow ministers.

It’s probably just a coincidence.

The immeasurable toll of war

sorcey’s comment 12 Nov 08, 1:11pm

edwardrice, the true answer, one which Geoffrey refuses to give, is that Gazans were born non-Jewish but close to Israel, and that is the reason why they are treated this way. If Gazans were Jewish they would not be subject to Israeli attempts to starve or subjugate the population. Muslims and Christians, on the other hand, are fair game for Israeli abuses.

Jehuddah: “Categorically, it must be noted, Israel has never, never, set out to conquer territory, subjugate people or peoples, and take control over natural resources for their own sake, never!”

That is a blatant lie. The 1967 war was Israeli greed turned into action. Israel attacked Egypt only after the US and UK assured Israel that it was militarily superior to all Arab armies combined, and that Egypt was not about to attack Israel.

Besides, what do you call the ethnic cleansing Israel repeatedly commits within it’s own borders and outside, in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights? An accident?

The view from Jericho

sorcey’s comment 27 Sep 08, 10:39am

I remember reading time and again, 3 or 4 years ago, that if only the Palestinians would stop all violence against Israelis, that Israelis would rush to set up a two state solution because they don’t want violence and occupation, and the majority are not expansionist racists.

I knew back then that this was a lie to generate sympathy. I hope that this is clear to more people now.

The future is one nation

sorcey’s comment 27 Sep 08, 9:29am

I really truly cannot see how a one state solution would ever ever work. You’d wind up with a state that sees all Palestinians as third-class citizens or non-entities, and the institutionalised racism that is already present in every government department in Israel would ensure that Palestinians were always considered last and least in every way.

How do you run a South Africa style truth and reconciliation commission when the vast majority of Israelis think it’s right to shoot a 13 year old girl in the back, and then empty your gun into her body?

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Imam-al-Hamas24nov04.htm

A blockade of young minds

sorcey’s comment 11 Sep 08, 9:06pm

Ehad’s writing was really touching and seemed quite genuine, until you take into account the fact that Israeli repression of Palestinians predates Hammas by decades. Hammas is just the current excuse. If all Palestinians laid down their arms tomorrow Israel would continue to oppress, steal and murder Palestinians.

One state: a solution for Israel/Palestine or a threat?

sorcey’s comment 22 Aug 08, 11:18am

I seriously doubt the majority of Palestinians want to live in a bi-national state. A survey of refugee Palestinians once discovered that the majority of them would prefer to live in a Palestinian state and would give up their right of return for compensation.

What is for them in a bi-national state or in Israel proper? They would be treated for the rest of their lives as third class citizens, they would be harassed and threatened by zionist thugs for the rest of their lives, and the police would stand by, watching and smiling and intervening if they dared fight back, but otherwise content to let them be abused, beaten or killed.

Recognising the Jewish ‘Nakba’

sorcey’s comment 25 Jun 08, 12:46pm

So, just to get this straight, an Arab Jew sells all his property and moves to Israel, buys a new house, receives money from Israel because they pay Jews who have emigrated in order to encourage it, and now JJAC say the guy is a refugee from Arab lands, and therefore entitled to compensation? And his compensation will be that Palestinians never get compensated?

Repairing the world

sorcey’s comment 20 May 08, 10:10am

nicschlagman, actually, Herzl advocated ethnic cleansing. That is not actually a stance highly regarded by the left over here.

On the plus side, you may not have to worry about more refugees, and possibly not even the existing ones: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985061.html

spectreovereurope: “Anti-semites?” Very droll, but you forgot self-haters.

leftofright, the Zionism written about here by Seth is profoundly different to Israel’s mainstream Zionism, where disenfranchisement and discrimination against non-Jews is a central tenet.

Seth, so one of the core principles you grew up with is tikun olam, and another is Zionism, but not the Zionism I know and have seen time again?

The art of living together

sorcey’s comment 06 May 08, 9:19pm

Hi Seth. Interesting article. I think it shows that Israel isn’t fighting terrorism or radical Islam or even freedom fighters. It’s fighting non-Jews, both externally and internally. A majority of Israeli Jews seem to see Christians and Muslims as hated enemies. So much for wanting to exist peacefully in the region…

Thanks for the update on the Hebron Orphanage. The only way to describe the IDF is as utter and complete bastards just following orders.

A fresh look at settlement expansion

sorcey’s comment 05 Apr 08, 1:41pm

iahima: “Why can’t Jews, in other words, continue to live as equal citizens of a future Palestinian-Jordanian entity, in their villages, just as Palestinian Arabs have been living in the Jewish state of Israel as equal citizens?”

Becuase it’s stolen land, taken by force from Palestinians who own that land. Funny how you choose to forget that when it’s convenient, which is always.

Also because the settlers dont’ want to live in a secular state, they wish to live in a Jewish state with non-Jews a discriminated and persecuted minority. You know, kind of like a slave labour force that they can beat at their leisure.

And finally, because of the settler mentality and their rabid hatred of non-Jews (which can easily be demonstrated by pointing out that there is not a single non-Jew in the settlements) the Palestinians don’t want settlers in their midst. The settlers would be a security nightmare for Palestinians.

An old enmity

sorcey’s comment 04 Apr 08, 4:07pm

pretzelberg, thanks for letting me/us know the truth. Surprisingly, I have learned a lot from this thread: Geoffrey Alderman cannot provide any proof that Ken is an anti-semite. In fact, quite the opposite, this thread seems to be shoing just how good Ken is for Jewish and other minority Londoners. Who’s Ken running against this year? The Evening Standard’s choice, Jeffrey Archer, or someone even less credible? [Edited by moderator]

Salt in the wounds

sorcey’s comment 07 Mar 08, 10:54am

It’s terrible that this happened, but really, is anyone surprised? The IDF have just completed a killing spree and Israelis have been extremely satisfied at the results – dozens of children killed, no criticism from any US or UK government officials, the EU muttering a few vague statements regarding how unfortunate it is for Israel to have to kill so many children.

133 dead on both sides so far.

One question I haven’t heard answered yet is why were there guns in a Yeshiva in Jerusalem?

A real peace movement?

sorcey’s comment 06 Mar 08, 3:41pm

This is so dull. The same demands that Israel not be criticized for infanticide or expansion, the same strident calls for all Arabs to disarm, presumably to make it safer for Israelis to kill them, the same calls for compromise from one side only, zionists apparently not needing to compromise because it would impair expansion.

Israel’s royal welcome

sorcey’s comment 25 Mar 08, 4:21pm

As always, I’m amazed that the same people who believe it’s perfectly reasonable to pass a law forbidding non-Jews from buying land in Israel will jump up and down and cry anti-semitism if anyone were to propose a law banning Jews from buying land in the UK.

As always, the pro-Israel bunch here are complete nutters.

Whose side is Britain on?

sorcey’s comment 22 Feb 08, 12:43pm

GrahamePriest, I shouldn’t be humouring a GIYUS troll, but I will, just to see if a few facts make your head explode. How many Palestinians did zionists expell between late 1947 and 1949?

I’m also wondering about your lack of morality, Is a failed ethnic cleansing really acceptable to you? Jews wanted to expel all non-Jews from their state but failed. They expelled most non-Jews but not all. Does that make it all right?

Stevejones123, good point about creeping annexation. But getting rid of Arabs in Israel is Lieberman’s platform. Well, and Kach, Shas, etc, but only Lieberman suggested territorial swaps. Kach and co suggested cattle trucks and gas chambers.

A false prospectus on campus

sorcey’s comment 15 Feb 08, 2:52pm

I think this author is brilliant. Absolutely fantasic. No one else could so clearly convey the Israeli viewpoint that being pro-Palestinian is by definition anti-Israeli and therefore anti-semitic. Well done.

The funny thing is, most people who discuss apartheid and Israel do so with reference to the territories, not to Israel proper. Israeli Arabs are discriminated against, delegitimised and demonised, but are not subjected to apartheid.

Palestinians in the West Bank and gaza are delegitimised, demonised and discriminated against, and they are subjected to laws, conditions and treatment that is/are radically different to the ones Israeli settlers are subjected to. Apartheid.

Oh, and what exactly is the official stance on denying Palestinians self-determination, as the Israeli state has been doing for decades? Or are we supposed to pretend that isn’t racism and that the majority of Israel’s citizens, who support denying self-determination for Palestinians aren’t racist?

Between a rock and a hard place

sorcey’s comment 03 Feb 08, 11:13am

I’m surprised, Seth. Here you’re talking about Arabs living in Israel and you don’t once mention a survey that states the vast majority of Israelis refuse to live in the same apartment building as an Arab, refuse to work with an Arab, and support the passage of laws discriminatory to Arabs.

The phrase “fifth column” is seen everywhere in Israeli media and always refers to Arab Israelis, who are always traitors. Arab Israelis are portrayed as criminals on TV in Israel. They’re the lying, cheating, murdering, disloyal non-Jews in Israel. Ever go to a football match and chant “kill the Arabs” along with the other Israelis?

Recently the decision has been made not to prosecute any of the police who shot Arab Israelis in the riots in 2000. Apparently, there’s no point in prosecuting those who shoot Arabs.

And your article ignores all that. It even ends with the typical Israeli demand that Arabs shut up and do what they’re told.

A time for action

sorcey’s comment 09 Jan 08, 10:09am

Seth, great article. But don’t be surprised if you are met with force from both the settlers and the IDF, who after all are there specifically to enable the settlers to steal more land and expand.

At first the IDF will look the other way as the settlers use force, then once they’ve gone the IDF will come in and arrest you all for disturbing the peace.

Avihu: “But the situation in Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley is different. First, these are the regions that have been the cradle of our Jewish civilization…”

In other words, you support the areas being ethnically cleansed of Palestinians and Jews moving in to set up Jewish-only towns and villages.

The truth of the matter is that Palestinians trust in the true intentions of the Israeli government – 60 years of ethnic cleansing, on attempted genocide, state sanctioned murder, calls by religious authorities for mass infanticide and more make Israeli intentions very very clear.

Blair’s Bethlehem brainwave

sorcey’s comment 26 Nov 07, 2:58pm

Another day, another example of Israelis’ quest for peace and their special love for Christians. If they throw sound bombs when they’re not on a raid, what exactly do they throw at Palestinians when they are on raids?

Sooner or later Israel will succeed with their genocidal ambitions. After all, they will eventually drive every Palestinian to fight back, and they will kill them as they do. Israel will claim self defence, the US will fund them lavishly while singing their praises, and neighbouring Arab states will be invaded when Israel needs yet more land to expand into.