Guardian’s egregious double standards on display in report on Israeli Facebook post


Over the last week the Guardian’s Jerusalem correspondent Harriet Sherwood has devoted two reports to the row over comments posted by an Israeli government official on his personal Facebook page.

August 16:

fb 1

August 22:

fb 2

Whilst the comments by Danny Seaman, Deputy Director General for Information at the Israeli Ministry of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs, were clearly inappropriate and offensive, recent Facebook posts on the official account of Fatah, the party of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, go way beyond ‘inappropriate’ and yet will almost certainly not be reported by the Guardian.

Per a report on Aug. 22 at Palestinian Media Watch:

Fatah’s official Facebook page continues to promote and glorify violence and terror for children. In one [August] post, young Palestinian boys are shown holding rifles with the text: “The children of Palestine – this is how they celebrated their holiday.”

Kids_with_rifle_FB

In another [August] post, a masked man is holding a rifle with these words beside the picture:

“Machine gun, wake up the sleeping and tell them that without blood Palestine will not return

Masked_man_with_rifle

Another [August] post on Fatah’s main Facebook page described 4 female terrorist murderers as “stars who sparkled in the sky.” Three of the women were suicide bombers, while the fourth was a bus hijacker [Dalal Mughrabi] who was responsible for the deaths of 37 civilians [during the Coastal Road Massacre]. 

[Facebook, "Fatah - The Main Page," Aug. 2, 2013

Unlike Seaman’s Facebook posts – one of which was insensitive towards victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, prompting the Israeli government to issue an apology – do we even have to ask whether the Palestinian Authority will apologize to the Jewish victims of the Palestinian terrorists they recently honored?

Will the Guardian or the mainstream media so much as report these acts of incitement, yet alone properly contextualize the incidents as serious impediments to peace in the dramatic fashion typically employed when Israel announces the construction of new homes in Jerusalem?

Whilst the answers to such questions are obvious to anyone who understands the double standards constantly on display in the coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the mere ubiquity of the media’s failure to hold Palestinians morally responsible for such grotesque behavior doesn’t render it any less outrageous. 

111 comments on “Guardian’s egregious double standards on display in report on Israeli Facebook post

  1. And this is from Fatah, which is routinely described by the Guardian and others as “moderate”!

    Fatah should not only apologise to the Jewish victims of terror, but also to the generations of Palestinians who have been failed by their leaders’ bloodthirsty intransigence.

  2. Adam:

    “…on his personal Facebook page.”

    When you enter politics the above does not exist.
    You choose to enter the public life and every word you utter, whether written or verbal exchange, can be held against you and rightly so.

    You persoonal life can only occur behind closed doors.
    FB is not closed doors.

    • BTW, the rest of the post is correct and sadly your conclusion is beyond obvious these days.
      No wonder Rafi aka jesper is so happy lately.

    • I agree with you Itsik, and I do not want in any way to be seen as defending Seaman’s comments, but it should be pointed out that at least comments on a personal level such as this can only be said to damage the reputation of the individual, not the organisation he works for.

      So – if the Guardian thinks it is important to hold a single Israeli government employee to account for his views (which it is – he deserves everything he gets), then how much more important is it to hold an organisation which purports to form a government accountable for its OFFICIAL views?

      • Correct.
        Saying that, however, puts the onus on responding to the body that person works for.
        If the body does discipline the individual than they can be seen as indorsing those views – as is the case with Fatah, but is not the case with the Israeli govt – which is why I said the article is a good point.

      • ” it should be pointed out that at least comments on a personal level ”

        A shame you had to put this.

        Adam has produced an excellent article and it chokes me to say that. There were no winks at Seaman’s hideous language….no excuses …outright condemnation. He did not even have to mention it but because he did it makes for a stronger case.. one that looks balanced .

          • If an Iranian minister described the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jewish civilians as deserved would you be comforted by the thought that it was just personal?

            Im not condemning what you said I am merely pointing out that Adam got it right and I will mark it in my diary.

  3. I think I am numb to the Guardian’s bias and lack of journalistic integrity at this point. It’s like expecting Maan to not be biased.

  4. “Seaman also wrote he was “sick” of commemorations for the victims of the nuclear bombs dropped in Japan during World War II because “you reap what you sow.”

    Jasper helpfully provides an analogy to drive the point home and as usual in such case, the history of the Jews is inserted: “If an Iranian minister described the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jewish civilians as deserved would you be comforted by the thought that it was just personal?”

    The British journalist and historian once wrote: “”Historical analogies are never exact but sometimes useful. If they are to be useful, then the precedent needs at a minimum to be stated accurately”.

    Let’s see now how accurate, and useful, is Jasper’s analogy.

    He compares Jews exterminated in the gas chambers by Hitler to Japanese citizens incinerated in the atomic bomb attack.

    He compares the European Jews, who had played no role whatsoever in HItler’s rise (except as the lynchpin upon which he managed to excite the masses to vote for him) to Japanese citizens who were loyal to their regime and its aspirations.

    He compares the extermination of civilians by its own co-civilians to a segment of a civilian population killed in a WAR by the other side.

    He suggests by his analogy that the exterminated Jews had reaped what they sowed.

    He suggests that the Japanese killed in the atomic bomb are somehow on par from a moral point of view and the law of war, with Holocausted Jews.

    Here is again Oliver Kamm on the atomic bomb:

    “This alternative history is devoid of merit. New historical research in fact lends powerful support to the traditionalist interpretation of the decision to drop the bomb. This conclusion may surprise Guardian readers. The so-called revisionist interpretation of the bomb made headway from the 1960s to the 1990s. It argued that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were less the concluding acts of the Pacific war than the opening acts of the cold war. Japan was already on the verge of surrender; the decision to drop the bomb was taken primarily to gain diplomatic advantage against the Soviet Union.

    Yet there is no evidence that any American diplomat warned a Soviet counterpart in 1945-46 to watch out because America had the bomb. The decision to drop the bomb was founded on the conviction that a blockade and invasion of Japan would cause massive casualties. Estimates derived from intelligence about Japan’s military deployments projected hundreds of thousands of American casualties.

    Truman had to take account of this, and dropped the bomb for the reasons he said at the time. Contrary to popular myth, there is no documentary evidence that his military commanders advised him the bomb was unnecessary for Japan was about to surrender. As the historian Wilson Miscamble puts it, Truman “hoped that the bombs would end the war and secure peace with the fewest American casualties, and so they did. Surely he took the action any American president would have undertaken.” Recent Japanese scholarship provides support for this position. Sadao Asada, of Doshisha University, Kyoto, has concluded from analysis of Japanese primary sources that the two bombs enabled the “peace party” within Japan’s cabinet to prevail.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/06/comment.secondworldwar

    __________

    So what is the meaning of Jasper’s analogy? How does it serve to clarify the question of Seaman’s comments? Anybody who is clueless about history, reading Jasper’s analogy, what would that someone be likely to infer?

    • Noga:

      I’ll buy the Hiroshima case, but not the Nagasaki one.

      The fact remains that in 1945 the average US citizen saw Japanese as lower beings just like they saw blacks, Jews, Native Americans, Indians, Chinese, Arabs and pretty much every thing else under the sun that didn’t fall in the Yankee prism.

      The film actually rings echos of Taliban or Al Qaeda portrayal, for right or wrong, it is disturbing to note how language was used back in 1945.

      “Propaganda portrayed the Japanese as a foreign, grotesque and uncivilized enemy.[114] Drawing on Japanese samurai traditions, American propagandists portrayed the Japanese as blindly fanatic and ruthless, with a history of desiring overseas conquests.[115] Japanese propaganda, such as Shinmin no Michi or The Way of the Subjects, called for the Japanese people to become “one hundred million hearts beating as one”—which Allied propagandists used to portray the Japanese as a mindless, unified mass.[116] Atrocities were ascribed to the Japanese people as a whole.[110] Even Japanese-Americans would be portrayed as massively supporting Japan, only awaiting the signal to commit sabotage.[101] Japanese atrocities and their fanatical refusal to surrender supported the portrayal of otherwise racist elements in propaganda.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_propaganda_during_World_War_II

      You said: “… to Japanese citizens who were loyal to their regime and its aspirations.”

      I think we have a mirror image with “…Allied propagandists used to portray the Japanese as a mindless, unified mass.”

      I do not judge the actions of the US in dropping the bombs back then because the view of the world was different.
      It’s always easy being a smart arse in hindsight, and god knows how much those at the G love being that, but, I cannot see hinting that “the Japanese deserved this” can be excused.
      There were thousands of souls wasted in that Pacific theater from both sides needlessly.
      Seaman comments remind me of those who have had enough with Holocaust memorials.

      Respect for those who perished through the worst self destructive acts of human behavior is not something we should forget.
      Learning from your past is what brought us to start using tools and invent.
      He who forget his past will repeat his errors.

      • Part of the historical context of this analysis is that some form of racism or ethnocentrism was the default mode of thought in virtually all societies. If there was a “Yankee prism” there was also a British prism, a French prism, a Japanese prism, etc. Much of British and European racism at the time was largely invisible, in contrast to American anti-black racism, as it was mainly deployed abroad in the European empires.

        It should also be noted that there was no thirst to kill Japanese people until the US was attacked by Japan.

        The bombing of civilian cities had become routine by the time the US entered the war. Japan was the first to do it in China during the 1930s. The Germans initiated it in the European theatre, and the British followed suit. The use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was a difference of degree, not kind.

        Finally it should also be noted that Japan was involved in the ongoing massacre of an estimated 20 million Chinese civilians during the war, and could not reasonably expected to be dislodged form China any time soon. In addition, millions of Japanese would have died as a result of an American invasion, both from the fighting and from starvation.

        None of this is to say that the Japanese civilian victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in anyway deserved to die. Insensitivity to their suffering is despicable. But ending the war as fast as possible saved the lives of countless millions of Chinese, Japanese, and Americans.

        • You are correct Dan and i agree with you.
          the bombing in my mind was something military commanders had to take on a regular basis and not one could have foreseen the results for years to come (cancer etc).

          I was focusing on US mentality at the time because they were the one who happen to conduct the bombing.
          The same could be said about pretty much any nation during those days.

          There is no question that ending the war earlier was something desirable but having said that the pain for those survivors who committed no proven crime other than being family members or having Japanese citizenship should not be wiped away because some minister believes he has had enough of memorial ceremonies.

          I compare this to Vietnam memorial service or Russian memorial service or even Iran – Iraq war memorial service.

          my point is beyond the national but into the humane aspect, which Seaman seemes to forget.
          He should have said something directly to the Japanese minister who said the comments about Hitler rather than to Japan as a nation.

          That’s my point and i apologise if it didn’t come across.

      • ItsikDeWembley: Nobody was selling you anything but you are certainly in a buying mood. According to your knowledge of history, during the war years Japanese were to the Americans what the Jews were to the Germans. You actually are buying Jasper’s analogy. And to extend the logic of your own position, if the bombing of the Hiroshima Japanese was militarily and hence morally, justified, then the Jews extermination of Jews in Auschwitz was also morally justified. Because an analogy works in both directions, you know.

        I doubt jasper was thinking that far and deep but this is what’s rationally implied by his comments. And what’s implied is a rancid and obscene revision of historical records.

        • Noga:

          “You actually are buying Jasper’s analogy.”

          No I don’t.
          I agree with you that there is not comparison between the 2 scenraios jasper was equating (if indeed he was equating it to the Holocaust).

          saying that let us examine what jasper wrote;

          “If an Iranian minister described the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jewish civilians as deserved ”

          No where did he said the figure 6 million, mentioned WW2 or Holcaust.
          Yes, like you I suspected it is what he meant but clarification from him is in order before assumptions are made.
          What I suspect he clumsily tried to relay is that had Jews died in a similar manner such as in a war against Iran would we as Jews be content with an Iranian ministers remark in years to come.

          As i said I think this is void to begin with as there is no comparison between what we have today and what we had then, both in population’s mentality and in the rules of engagement (from the Israeli army at least).

  5. Despite what he said about Japan, I really liked Seaman’s reply to the Palestinian Erekat’s demands: “is there a diplomatic way of saying Go F*** Yourself?

    For that alone he deserves a medal.

    • “I really liked Seaman’s reply ..he deserves a medal.”

      Yeah whats the problem? He just sneered at a hundred thousand dead civilians but he hates the Palestinians so he cant be all bad.

      • Even when the guy quotes one line, you have to edit out words in the sentence TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE YOU OWN A POINT?

        Good God, you are a fucking hate monger idiot. Hope you lose your finger the next time you inspect your asshole.

      • Jasper. (Foulmouth). He never said that ‘he hates the Palestinians ‘, what he said was specifically to that clown Erikat, famous from the ‘Jennin massacre!’ , Go F*** Yourself

        For me to write it down is appropriate.

        For him, as a paid Israeli official, it is inappropriate.

  6. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/02/fatah-facebook-page-glorifies-1975.html#.UfYLudI3uSo

    Fatah Facebook page glorifies 1975 Savoy Hotel terrorists
    February 07, 2012
    From Palestinian Media Watch:
    Fatah has chosen to use its official Facebook page to glorify terrorists.
    Fatah’s page currently displays a poster with the pictures of 8 terrorists who carried out a terror attack on the Savoy Hotel in Tel Aviv in 1975, that was posted by the Fatah administrator.
    8 Israeli civilians and 3 soldiers were killed in the attack.

  7. Harriet Sherwood likes to be silent when talking about Palestinian mass murderers being glorified on Fatah Facebook.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170275#.UfWGVtI3uSo

    Fatah Honors Terrorist for Murdering 61 Israelis
    As “peace talks” approach, PA President’s party honors terrorist responsible for multiple atrocities against Israeli civilians
    Gil Ronen
    7/25/2013,

    As western leaders push for negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, urging Israeli concessions – including the release of convicted terrorists – the PA leadership is continuing in its longstanding tradition of honoring terrorists who murdered Israeli civilians, report Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik of Palestinian Media Watch.

    PMW points to a picture that appeared on an official Fatah Facebook page, glorifying five of the suicide bombings for which Abdallah Barghouti prepared explosives, which killed 61 “Zionists.”

    The graphic was posted by the administrator of the official Facebook page of the Enlistment and Organization Commission of Fatah. Arch-terrorist Barghouti was honored as the “brave prisoner” and his attacks as “self-sacrificing activity” and “Martyrdom-seeking operations.”

    “Martyrdom-seeking operations” is the Palestinian euphemism for suicide bombings.

    Barghouti is serving 67 life sentences for preparing explosives for terror attacks in which 67 people were murdered – Sbarro restaurant (15 killed, Aug. 9, 2001), Sheffield Club (15 killed, May 7, 2002), Moment Café (11 killed, March 9, 2002), triple attack at Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall (11 killed, Dec. 1, 2001), Hebrew University (9 killed, July 1, 2002), and Bus 4 in Tel Aviv (6 killed, Sept. 19, 2002).

    Following PMW’s exposure of the visits this past May by PA TV to the homes of terrorist Barghouti and two other arch terrorists who between them are serving 166 life sentences, PA TV criticized PMW saying they are not terrorists but “heroes” and attacked PMW for calling them “terrorists”.

  8. There is continual denial from left-wing “journalists” of the bloodthirsty agenda of the Arab side of the Israeli-Arab conflict, while any “evidence” of Israeli deficiencies is trumpeted to the skies.

    Thus when an obscure, far-left Israeli group claimed to have done a “survey” that “proved” the majority of Jewish Israelis are racist towards Arabs, the BBC latched onto the story as though it were a major news item of worldwide significance. I debated this with an ex-BBC techie, asking him why the World Service would think if appropriate to push the story for at least ten hours as an item near or at the top of its half-hourly newscasts and dissect it on its news programmes. He claimed (falsely) that the World Service often reported such surveys, and not only when they referred to the Israelis.

    I pointed out that the Palestinians conduct regular surveys, which find that an alarming proportion, and sometimes even a majority, of those surveyed approve of terrorist attacks against Israelis, yet I had never seen that fact reported on the World Service – or anywhere else on the BBC. His response? Everyone knows that’s what the Palestinians think, so it’s not news.

    The degree of denial in that response is truly mind boggling, and of course it begs the obvious question: how can people know about these Palestinian attitudes if “news” media stubbornly refuse to report on them?

    And one wonders how prevalent that casually-dismissive attitude towards Palestinian approval of terrorism is amongst the propagandists of left-wing media like the BBC and the Guardian. I guess if they allow themselves to report on it they would have to then acknowledge who and what they are supporting when they support the Palestinians.

    And of course, we can’t have that.

    • ” the bloodthirsty agenda of the Arab side ”

      I have followed your posts on CIF for some years. They are not bad , occasionally helpful and often witty. This is dross. It is racist and as bad as any blood libel slur against the Jews that I have ever seen.

      Truly pitiful.

      • There is nothing racist about reporting facts. Since you object so strongly to my comment, you should be prepared to explain why you imagine there isn’t a bloodthirsty agenda behind the following actions by the Arab side of the conflict:

        *The invasion of the newborn Israel by 5 Arab countries in 1948, with the stated intention to slaughter the Jews and drive them into the sea.

        *Endless Arab terrorism intentionally targeting Israeli civilians, including women and children.

        *Wholehearted support for this terrorism and public honouring of terrorist “martyrs” by allegedly-moderate leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and by Hezbollah, who gave the despicable murderer, Sami Kuntar, a hero’s welcome on his release from an Israeli prison.

        *Street celebrations and the handing out of sweets to children after terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians and the mass murder of civilians in New York on 9/11.

        The list is endless and yes, I’d say that’s bloodthirsty.

      • The blood libel is not true. That’s why it is called a libel. Attacks by Palestinians on Israeli citizens in buses and restaurants, on the other hand, have definitely happened and can legitimately be called part of a bloodthirsty agenda of an Arab leadership. How is it racist to speak of this?

        • That’s precisely the point. Vast numbers of the public have suffered decades of indoctrination by left-wing academics and the left-wing media into the belief that everyone and everything is the same and worthy of the same consideration and respect. And so, if you call the Arab agenda “bloodthirsty,” you have committed an unforgivable crime, blaspheming against the God of PeeCee.

          It seems that Jasper and countless others who think like him have no idea how thoroughly they have been conned.

  9. The good old tactic of the kind of your kind racist bigots – to accuse the opposition with racism instead of trying to refute their arguments with facts.
    Don’t worry you are not the first and probably not the last.
    It isn’t pitiful jasper it is well known. Do you have any argument to prove the wrongs in TrueToo’s post? Not? Then kindly f*ck off (paraphrasing Danny Seaman)

    • He said ” the bloodthirsty agenda of the Arab side “.This is the Arab side that WRT Israel has had thousands of civilians killed this century alone. Are you so dumb as to not see that the Arabs are merely one side in this crisis?

      It is no surprise that you see them all as baby eating savages but True Too on CIF is not an extremist ..as I say I know his posts well. I guess that on a forum such as this the true dangerous and quite stunningly racist agenda can be discussed openly with fear or shame

      • Are you so dumb as to not see that the Arabs are merely one side in this crisis?

        Jasper, you’re suffering from the virus that has hit the left of the political spectrum worldwide – the belief that all actions are equal. Thus, if civilians are killed on both sides, then both sides must be equally to blame. They aren’t.

        Unless of course you can find examples of the Palestinians distributing leaflets warning Israeli civilians about the location of the next terrorist attack.

        Perhaps you saw the video of the rebel commander eating the body parts of a Syrian soldier.

        But hell, we better be politically correct, accept our brainwashing and not describe that obscene act as bloodthirsty.

        • ” not describe that obscene act as bloodthirsty. ”

          How you mince your words when it suits. You have gone from calling the Arabs in general “bloodthirsty” to calling a particular act of insane brutality bloodthirsty.

          . Its a shame because although we have argued on many occasions I had never seen you as slippery before.

          • I haven’t gone from one thing to the other (I’ve included both) and there’s nothing “slippery” about me or my contributions to the debate here or on CIF. I have said precisely the same things there as I’ve said here. I said the Arabs have a “bloodthirsty agenda,” and I have seen nothing from you to disprove that or even challenge one of the points I listed earlier.

            Imagine we were debating this in a court of law. It would take me months, if not years to present the encyclopaedic evidence supporting my case, beginning with the slaughter of entire tribes of Jews by Mohammed through the pogroms against Jewish citizens of Arab countries, the slaughter of entire Jewish familes in Hebron, Tsfat and Jerusalem long before the establishment of Israel and the endless, unprovoked wars and terrorism against the Jews in their own state.

            I would demonstrate how Arab leaders, imams and the state-controlled media speak of Jews as the sons and daughter of monkeys, incite hated against the Jews on a daily basis, publish anti-Semitic cartoons to rival those of the Nazis and pump this hatred into their children when they are barely old enough to speak.

            Now how about you? How would you rebut the charge that the Arabs have a bloodthirsty agenda? (Feel fee to omit the cannibalism in Syria and concentrate on the relationship between the Arabs and the Jews.)

            Jasper, you appear to be thoroughly pickled in political correctness. Perhaps you should do something about it.

  10. How can anyhbody defend such atrocious remarks? I am disgusted. By the way has he advised the Israeli occupation regime to stop the ethnic cleansing – as it is in appropriate to sow misery for yourself in the future –
    Appropriately the Japanese and the rest of the world, apart from cifwatch, are disgusted with his remarks
    “I am sick of the Japanese, ‘Human Rights’ and ‘Peace’ groups the world over holding their annual self-righteous commemorations for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki victims,” Seaman wrote on his Facebook page. “Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the consequence of Japanese aggression. You reap what you sow.”

    • “By the way has he advised the Israeli occupation regime to stop the ethnic cleansing ”
      No need to, but the real question here is have you stopped beating your wife yet? Please cease and desist from your daily atrocities.
      Yes John, the “Japanese and the rest of the world, apart from cifwatch” realize that Japan was the ‘real victim’ in WWII, and, of course, the Germans too, eh?
      As misguided as Mr. Seaman’s comments may have been, it was the Empire of Japan that murdered millions of civilians, but they at least did it the old fashioned way, i.e., by using the cutting edge technology of that era to implement their ‘beautiful’ war aims.

    • “I am sick of the Japanese, ‘Human Rights’ and ‘Peace’ groups the world over holding their annual self-righteous commemorations for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki victims,”

      This is not a sneer at the victims. It is a sneer at the hypocrisy of self-defined Human rights groups who under the banner of Human Rights try to revise history and paint America and the West as the evildoers.
      ________________

      “Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the consequence of Japanese aggression. You reap what you sow.”

      This is a comment about the victims but again, not a sneer. It is a rather ill-phrased attempt to contextualize the killing in its broader historical frame. The second sentence “You reap what you sow.” is what hurts the Japanese. It sounds callous, as if the victims’ suffering is shrugged off, but it is not a sneer and nor a lie and not even a misrepresentation of historical truth.

      If we do not make distinctions between the causes of killing that means that there is no longer such a concept as self-defense and any killing is a sin and a crime.

      It is pretty much what we see with regards to Palestinians. They are exempt from the necessity to stand accused of murdering Israelis (Jews) because, as Jasper said Israel has had thousands of Arab civilians killed since 2000. According to him, they have a right to murder Israelis and still avoid being labelled “blood thirsty”. Conveniently he forgets that during the second Intifada, over 1100 Israeli civilians were shredded to pieces by the Palestinians.

      This is the ethics, the morality of the human rights groups whom Seaman jeered. The gist of his comment is the same as what Michael Ignatieff wrote in his
      book: “Human Rights as Politics and Idolatry:

      “Global human rights consciousness, moreover, does not necessarily imply that the groups defending human rights actually believe the same things. Many of these NGO’s espouse the universalist language of human rights but actually use it to defend highly particularist causes: the rights of particular national groups or minorities or classes or persons… The problem is that particularism conflicts with universalism at the point at which one’s commitment to a group leads one to countenance human rights violations towards another group. “

      • “According to him, they have a right to murder Israelis”

        I condemn their violence without qualification , I condemn anyone who raises their hand in anger whilst any alternative is available. Now take your risible opinion and place it where the sun doesn’t shine

        • But of course jasper. You are an equal opportunity bigot. You condemn the attacker and at the same time you condemn the attacked when s/he protects her/himself against the violent attacker. Could be that the Second Coming is at hand?

        • I condemn their violence without qualification

          You’re not fooling anybody. You’ve just made your qualification with the the word you used. Arab murder of Israelis can be described as “violence,” if you want to dilute and minimise it out of a misguided sense of PeeCee, but it’s actually terrorism. You mutilate the English language in the same way as the apologists for Islamic terrorism in the BBC and the Guardian and right across the propagandist media.

          Why use a general, milder term when you have a specific, perfectly adequate word staring you in the face?

          And why the insults? Why are you so defensive? Childish responses don’t faciltate debate.

        • I am inclined to believe you, jasper. Your heart seems to be in the right place. But I will need proof in order to clinch the matter. Can you point us to a comment you made in a place where people of your mindset congregate, like Mondoweiss, or E-I, where you condemned, without qualification, the murder of the Fogel family kids, for example?

      • Noga,

        I will have to agree to disagree on this one.
        I dislike those human rights organisations who go out of their way to distort the conflict I am very much close to (the I/P conflict).
        But, that is one thing to say that and another to mock a whole nation as having “self righteous commemoration services” for their dead.

        Shame on him.
        Dancing on the graves of dead soldiers and civillians is shameful.

        I would not mock or disrespect Egyptian soldiers as a whole even though my Uncle was killed in 1970 against by an Egyptian soldier.

        Yes sure, some soldiers are bad ones that deserve their fait.
        Not all.

        • I agree that seaman’s words were ill-thought and in bad taste, possibly a failure to articulate in words an angry thought properly. As a civil servant he should have known better. But that’s the depth and breadth of his sin. There is a large gap between what he actually said and the casuistry of those interpreting it in the worst possible manner.

          In what manner was he “Dancing on the graves of dead soldiers and civilians”??

      • Noga:

        This is not a sneer at the victims

        Of course it is.
        The contexts are very different – but as ItsikDeWembley pointed out before: the language is indeed reminiscent of those bastards who are
        “sick of” Holocaust commemorations, which they similarly see as “self-righteous”.

    • “How can anyhbody defend such atrocious remarks?”

      Why am I so certain should anybody on this planet say something similar about Jews that you would create a new, stupid moniker name and defend, if not encourage, that person.

      Sure, that’s a strawman. But you have the intelligence of a scarecrow.

      • Once again, the analogy with Jews pops up. Please try to explain how Jewish history of suffering can be compared to Japanese suffering in this particular case. What is it about the Jews? Isn’t there a better analogy in the history of the world to draw upon? Like, for example, the suffering of those killed in Dresden, isn’t it a more plausible analogy? Or the various Massacres that took place during the Greek Revolution? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_during_the_Greek_Revolution

        The Jews were never a “side” in WWII. There was no question of their being a military threat to Hitler. So what’s the basis for dragging their history into this conversation?

    • John Atkins:

      Appropriately the Japanese and the rest of the world, apart from cifwatch, are disgusted with his remarks

      Adam Levick above calls Seaman’s comments “clearly inappropriate and offensive”.

      Next time try at least reading the article before making a fool of yourself – which you no doubt would anyway.

    • It kills you, doesn’t it, John Atkins, seeing young Israelis carrying arms, standing tall, unafraid, capable of defending themselves? You probably like much better the past image of the cringing Jew, so easily killed and noone to mourn him or her, right?

      Here is how Claude Lanzmann responds to your Jew-baiting:

      “In “Tsahal” I also knew exactly what I wanted to tell: the creation an army, the construction of an army, the creation of courage. This army represents a victory of the Jewish people over themselves. There had never been a Jewish army before. My film tells how Jews took their fate into their own hands to avoid ever become victims again. I show how they overcame the victim role and overcame a mental predisposition.

      In the Israeli army life is valued higher than anything else. And yet every soldier in the Tsahal is prepared to give his life. Unlike other armies of the world, the soldiers of the Tsahal do not die for the glory of their fatherland, they die for life alone. You should not forget that the genocide of the Jews in the Second World War was not just a murder of innocents. It was also a genocide of the defenceless. My film describes the path to overcome defencelessness. It describes how the Jewish people empowered themselves with weapons and it describes the psychological metamorphosis that the people had to undergo, in order to build an army like the Tsahal, in order to be able to defend themselves, to be able to kill.

      For decades, young Israelis have been growing up with the insecurity of knowing that no-one can guarantee that “Israel will still exist in 2025″.

      http://www.signandsight.com/features/1893.html

      • ” In the Israeli army life is valued higher than anything else ”

        Anyone who has seen footage of people having their arms broken must wonder what you have been smoking. I remember a proud army in 67 fighting their way up the Golan with astonishing bravery.They must cringe when they see the present lot swaggering about .

          • But of course you don’t mention the children luring in soldiers in cat and mouse chases in Gaza’s narrow alleys only to have fridges flung on the soldiers from the roof tops.
            Or into ambush where molotov cocktail thrown at them.

            That doesn’t fit into your world does it?

            During this period, 16 Israeli civilians and 11 soldiers were killed by Palestinians in the territories; more than 1,400 Israeli civilians and 1,700 Israeli soldiers were injured.
            More than 1000 Palestinian dead.

            First Intifada figures.

            Was it worth it?
            Did you get closer to a Democratic safe state where your future is blossoming?
            Hardly.

        • Anyone who considers you a peace loving protester must have really lost their marbles. I’d love to see you sitting in with the Freedom Riders rather than staying cozy in Mommy’s basement posting a bunch of obnoxious bullshit and calling it love.

          Please. Don’t own animals, and don’t have kids.

    • It’s hard to keep track of these scumbags. However, why give them any attention beyond what is necessary? I, for one, will not get into an ongoing conversation with someone who is clearly trolling. My time and energy is limited.

  11. There is no alternative way, diplomatically or otherwise to say g****f yourself, – but why would you want to say that to those who pose an existential demographic threat to your yourself unless you have the stomach to carry out a a genocide. Sounds ominous if g****f is all the Israeli administration can come up with.

    I think this kind of language is a clear indication that there is not a will to negotiate a just peace on the Zionist side.

    • What the hell is g***f yourself? Are you trying to say we’re telling you to Go Fuck Yourself? That would be G*F***yourself, although I’m not sure why the O in Go is as important as it may be in God. But whatever.

      You are a g**fball assh*le. Which you should understand since you speak in asterisks.

    • Sounds ominous if g****f is all the Israeli administration can come up with.

      Except it isn’t, of course.

  12. Of course too true is true to his name – but than two sides are also equal – if the Palestinians walk into a village ask all its inhabitants to leave and erase the all the Palestinian houses killing those who refused to leave. Of course, the Zionists have done this and continue to do it even today. Palestinians cannot do it. So they are not equal. Obviously the Palestinians are the inferior race.

    • false false:

      ” Of course, the Zionists have done this and continue to do it even today.”

      Name the village please, date and unit or individual that did it including the list of dead please.
      I’d like to see the death certificate too please.

    • Have Zionists done what you say they have done today or in the past. No, they haven’t. And sorry, it’s not up to me to prove to you that you’re a lying sack of shit whose only goal in life is to bash Israel and bad mouth Jews. You are fighting a losing battle. Israel is not going to go away. But, yes, chime in with the other idiots and believing that somehow you will get through our Jewey heads with your lies and hyperbole.

      As with the others, you are setting yourself up as a total and complete failure. In life. In love. In peace. And on this planet.

      You are of a dying breed that can’t stop it’s shitstained thinking. Corn in poo laugh at your inability to grasp reality. May you drown in your echo chamber.

    • f-f:
      … walk into a village ask all its inhabitants to leave and erase the all the Palestinian houses killing those who refused to leave. Of course, the Zionists have done this and continue to do it even today.

      Why even bother posting this bullshit when you must know it isn’t true?

  13. Too True and if the Palestinians can do this to the children than also they will be equal

    B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights group, said Israel’s Department for the Investigation of Police (DIP) is conducting an inquiry into alleged abuses that sometimes amounted to torture.
    The investigation focuses on interrogations carried out by officers at a police station in Gush Etzion, a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank south of Jerusalem.
    B’Tselem said it had taken testimonies from 64 Palestinians – the majority of them under 18 – since November 2009 who said they had suffered brutal treatment while being interrogated at the station.
    “In their testimonies, they described being subjected to severe physical violence that, in some cases, amounted to torture,” said Sairit Michaeli, a spokesperson for B’Tselem. “In addition, some of them reported being threatened with sexual assault, harm to family members or electrocution.”
    B’Tselem cited the testimony of one witness, identified only by his initials MH and aged 14 when he was detained, who said his interrogator violently assaulted him and threatened to rape him.

    • false false:

      “B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights group,”

      Israeli?
      human rights?

      can’t be. The 2 don’t mix right?

      “B’Tselem said it had taken testimonies from 64 Palestinians…”

      Bur hang on mr false false, you convinced us that Jews lie, why should we believe these Jews that claim to conduct those interviews?

      surely you’re mistaken.
      And i didn’t call you Shirley!

    • I’m sure some of these claims are true, though exaggerated and inflated for dramatic effect. What’s missing from the report is what 14 year old children are doing, engaging with well-armed Israeli soldiers. Shouldn’t they be home studying or playing football somewhere? Where are their parents, or other responsible adults that are supposed to look out for the well being of their youth?

      You want to know what a real atrocity involving 14 year old looks like? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Koby_Mandell_and_Yosef_Ishran#Disappearance_and_discovery

      Do you find it in your heart to excuse the perpetrators of these gory murders, False?

    • Is this “false false”s evidence – unproven allegations of alleged mistreatment under interrogation – of his allegation that the Zionists “walk into a village ask all its inhabitants to leave and erase the all the Palestinian houses killing those who refused to leave”?

      No – I didn’t think so.

  14. “What’s missing from the report is what 14 year old children are doing, engaging with well-armed Israeli soldiers. ”

    Actually this says more than you meant . What you are saying is that despite the oft quoted claim that ” the IDF is the most civilised force in the world ” they are simply a bunch of scared young folk fighting a cause that stinks so much that 14 year old kids will risk death and disfigurement opposing them.

    You are also saying that they must expect to be brutally dealt with. Israel is in real danger.Not today and not soon but these kids are going to grow up and have kids who are going to hate your lot more than death itself.

    Good luck with that.

    • jasper, for once you have written something sensible.
      “the IDF is the most civilised force in the world ” they are simply a bunch of scared young folk fighting a cause that stinks”

      The ’cause that stinks’ that the IDF is fighting is of course that of terrorists and their fellow travellers who wish to delegitimize and ultimately destroy Israel.

      So tell me jasper when did you become a Zionist?
      Don’t worry if your colleagues turn on you, I’m sure you’ll be able to seek asylum in Israel. No doubt Adam will be happy to put you up at his place.

      • Thanks for the chuckle. Jasper is not too bright. Poor guy meant to say that the Israeli cause “stinks,” but unfortunately for him he got it all mixed up.

        • TrueToo now you have disillusioned me.

          After reading jasper’s post my first thought was of Luke 15:7,
          “I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents..”

          Now you tell me that jasper has not repented his sinful ways and turned to Zionism, but is in fact an illiterate twat who is incapable of constructing a coherent sentence.

      • ” So tell me jasper when did you become a Zionist?”

        I have always been a Zionist . I believe in a powerful, safe Israel where Jews from the area …not Minsk or Brooklyn for example …can live in peace

        True Too.

        I have several times said your posts on CIF are measured and interesting. Here less so. However no disrespect but English is my first language and my post is totally accurate grammatically. Do you think it more likely that an American educated guy would get it right ? If so you are a funny guy.

        • “I have always been a Zionist . I believe in a powerful, safe Israel where Jews from the area …not Minsk or Brooklyn for example …can live in peace ”

          Remarkable. Where are the Israeli Jews whose grandparents arrived from MInsk and Brooklyn to go? And what will happen to those ” Jews from the area …” once Israel is no more? Even Edward Said could not bear to think about it

          “I worry about that. The history of minorities in the Middle East has not been as bad as in Europe, but I wonder what would happen. It worries me a great deal. The question of what is going to be the fate of the Jews is very difficult for me. I really don’t know. It worries me.” [-]
          “So in a generation or two, what we will have is an Arab-Jewish minority community in an Arab world?
          “Yes. Yes. I would have thought.”
          “Many Jews would find that frightening.” http://www.middleeast.org/archives/8-00-31.htm )

          This is the kind of ” powerful, safe Israel ” Jasper fantasizes about.

          • The Jewish population a hundred years ago was measured in the tens of thousands. How on earth do you expect a crowded dry strip of land to support waves and waves of immigrants without causing chaos ?

            Instead you have your ever ready howls of “anti Semitism” . A horrendous and sleekit slur . It used to be someone who hurt Jews .It is now someone with whom you have a tiny political disagreement.

            I repeat I want a powerful safe Israel behind the 67 lines. This is unfair I know but it is the only way the world will support Israel. This is urgent . The US is about to go tits up. What the hell are you going to do then?

              • ” Why is it that anti-Semites hate being considered anti-Semites ”

                Why is it they are only considered anti-Semites by people who struggle with comprehension and expression.

                ” twats ” ???

                I repeat my thought above. A dozen of your brethren have won Nobel prizes in Literature . Out of a tiny tiny population…the standard of literacy has been wonderful for your people throughout history .

                It seems shocking when you see posts that are clearly from the other end of the Bell curve.

                • I don’t struggle with comprehension. You wrote that you’ve got problems with American and German Jews living in Israel. That means, you have a problem with White Jews daring to move to the Middle East; and that these people are the “reason” for your ill-conceived vitriol. Y’know, the one that keeps you on this board making racially charged bullshit statements in which you purportedly are playing the role of peace loving European.

                  Twat: It’s American slang, for a rancid body part.

                  I really don’t care what you think of my literacy, and I find it amusing that you’re expecting me to treat with more than passing thoughts of total disdain. You are a nincompoop whose entire premise here is stay on this board and promote anger towards world Jewry because tohse Arabs are so sad.

                  Here’s one of my winning zingers. It zings because it’s true, btw: The reason why the Palestinians don’t have a state is because their best friends and tightest supporters are all pathetic asshats.

                  Asshat: American slang for Moron; see, Jassper.

            • I’m afraid it’s not for you or anyone but Israelis to decide who they will or will not allow to enter their country. It’s very nice of you, however, to express such concern for the future immigrants in Israel. I wouldn’t worry about it, though. Israelis have ways of dealing with dry land.

                • Really? Is that what you know about Israel’s scientific agricultural advances in cultivating arid land? You are a very bad faith poster here. There is not one good positive thing you can say about Israel or Israelis. You are not a critic of Israel. You are a hater and an exterminationalist one at that, if we take into account what you said earlier about all those Jews from Minsk and where they belong.

                • ” Israelis have ways of dealing with dry land.” Sure ..take the Arabs supply .

                  I have seen the desert made to bloom in the Negev – which was assigned to Israel anyway in the UN Partition Plan. Do you also consider the Negev to be stolen land?

              • “There is not one good positive thing you can say about Israel or Israelis.”

                Israel is a dynamic country that has many socialist ideas in the kibbutzim. It is scientifically brilliant, positive and has many brilliant writers and pacifists.

                Do you know the expression stick that in your pipe and smoke it ?

                • Typical ignorance. The kibbutzim are pretty much capitalistic projects now.

                  The rest of your accolades cannot be rationally aligned with the vicious spontaneity of your comment:

                  ” Israelis have ways of dealing with dry land. ”

                  Sure ..take the Arabs supply .”

                  Seems schizophrenic to me.

                • And yet, just an hour earlier, in a response to the exact same sentence fragment, you said all the Israelis did was steal Arab land.

                  And you see no problem with your two-faced bullshit.

                  Up yours, Jassper. High, hard, and sideways, Freak.

        • So you believe Israel is only for Jews from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt… y”know, countries that had kicked out all their Jews when Israel was created. And it’s just a pity that Jews from Brooklyn, Germany, and Poland had decided to move there.

          I mean, Wow.

          There is nothing interesting about you. Grammar and English wise, your posts are too fucking stupid to really be read with a straight face. You are a hate mongering twat, and too stupid to know it.

          • koufaxmitzvah

            “Up yours, Jassper. High, hard, and sideways, Freak.”

            A poet and sexual deviant combined. Still at least you get your venom out here it could be worse ..my guess is a lot worse. Some kid has probably escaped a bullet.

            • Talk to me about my violent streak when you see me celebrating the deaths of others. If you haven’t noticed, I direct my vitriol towards personal targets: Yourself, for example. Ali Abomination and Ben White Man’s Guilt are two others that I directly abuse with hyperbole. Again, as opposed to entire groups of people who manipulate others through influence and religion.

              High, hard, and sideways…. It could be a plank. It could be a brick. It could be a stick. Whatever it is that you choose to shove back up your rectum in order to possibly shove your brain back towards your head in an effort to cease your absurd stupidity, my suggestion will do.

              How old are you, Jassper? Older than the State of Israel?

        • I have always been a Zionist . I believe in a powerful, safe Israel where Jews from the area …not Minsk or Brooklyn for example …can live in peace
          Sadly (for you jasper) what you have been and what you believe about Israel has the significance of a papillonfart in a hurricane. The only relevant factor here is the will and intentions of the Israeli people including those from Minsk or Brooklyn. I understand your frustration feeling your absolute impotence to do anything about this fact, but you have to learn to live with it. If you are not able to do it then you have some other options, like becoming a suicide bomber for example. But please consider the environment before pushing the button…

          • Credit to you and e.g. Noga for even managing to read any further than Jasper’s “I have always been a Zionist …”.

            !!!!

            • Pretzy you are such a slimeoid. You congratulate Noga for using mental healthist language ? Backbone like a piece of wet spaghetti

              • “Backbone like a piece of wet spaghetti”

                That is clearly ante-pasta discriminatory language and should be banned!

    • Not today and not soon but these kids are going to grow up and have kids who are going to hate your lot more than death itself. Good luck with that.

      A notion you no doubt look forward to with glee …

    • “Not today and not soon …” Yes Pretz. And isn’t that what Israel (or whatever jasper means by “your lot”) has been dealing with for the last 65 years? Didn’t Golda Meir refer to this very phenomenon some 47 years ago? “We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

  15. I am really enjoying the theme/design of your blog.
    Do you ever run into any web browser compatibility problems?
    A small number of my blog audience have complained about my
    blog not operating correctly in Explorer
    but looks great in Firefox. Do you have any solutions to
    help fix this issue?

Comments are closed.