Harriet Sherwood parrots false charge of ‘Water Apartheid’


Harriet Sherwood published a report in the Guardian on Aug. 8 about a new Palestinian city being built near Ramallah (Rawabi rises: new West Bank city symbolises Palestine’s potential) which will eventually be home to 40,000 residents.  The new city of Rawabi is being built by the Palestinian conglomerate Massar International and the government of Qatar, and will, Sherwood informs us, be a hi-tech center which will boast “shopping malls…landscaped walkways, office blocks, a conference centre, restaurants and cafes”.

However, though we’ve at times praised her modest improvements covering the region, and her tendency to provide a bit more balance to her previously one-side stories, Sherwood still has journalistic tick which continually betrays her sympathies and biases, even in otherwise unproblematic reports. A case in point is the following passage from her Aug. 8 story on Rawabi.

Water has been another huge challenge, both for construction and to service the finished buildings. Israel controls almost all water supplies; 600,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem consume almost six times as much water as 2.7 million Palestinians.

Sherwood includes a link to a report, titled “Discriminatory Access and Water Apartheid in the OPT” by the radical NGO Al-Haq – led by Shawan Jabarin, a suspected “activist” with the PFLP terror group – which included the following passage:

More than 500,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank consume approximately six times the amount of water used by a Palestinian population of almost 2.6 million

The passage cites Al Haq’s own previous report on the issue, which used language which, though similar, is a bit less definitive:

The result of the overall situation is that, generally, Israeli settlers in the West Bank, which now number nearly 500,000 persons, consume approximately six times the water consumed by Palestinians

This passage cites a report by the NGO Ma’an Development Centre, which includes the following:

Israeli settlers in the West Bank enjoy a continuous flow of water and on average consume approximately six times more water than Palestinians.

This report cites the Palestinian Authority as its source. However, despite checking the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, I was unable to find any such claims.

(The only claim which even touches on the Al Haq/Ma’an charge is a Palestinian Water Authority presentation which alleged that Israelis consume 4 times more water per capita than Palestinians – a far cry from the claim that Israeli “settlers” alone use six times more total water than the Palestinians.)

However, according to a thorough study published by the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies in January 2012, even the less sensationalist charge suggesting an uneven distribution of water seems untrue.  The study, by Prof. Haim Gvirtzman, provides data demonstrating that “per capita consumption of water between Israelis and Palestinians…have been reduced over the last 40 years and are now negligible.”

Indeed, a report by the Israel Water Authority (published in 2012) supports the study’s conclusion, noting that the annual consumption by more than 2 million Palestinians is 185 MCM (million cubic meters) of water per year, whilst the annual consumption by 7.6 million Israelis (not just “settlers”) is 1040 MCM of water per year.  So, the use of water by all Israelis (who outnumber Palestinians by a factor of roughly 4) is, in itself, less than six times that of Palestinians.  

graphic

Additionally, more relevant to the Guardian/Al-Haq/Ma’an claim, per data published by COGAT (Israeli civil administration in the territories), “settlers” in the West Bank (excluding Israelis who live in eastern Jerusalem) consume 47 MCM of water per year, (or 134 liters per person per day, which is actually bit less than the average rate of water consumption by all Israelis, which is 137 liters per person per day)

So, if 350,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank consume 47 MCM/year and over 2 million Palestinians consume 185 MCM/year, then – while, proportionally, “settlers” use a bit more water per capita than Palestinians – Palestinians consume roughly 4 times more total water than Israelis “settlers” in the West Bank.

Even if the rate of water consumption by the 200,000 or so additional Israelis who live in eastern Jerusalem (which the NGOs count as “settlers”, and for which data doesn’t appear to be available) is astronomically higher than the average Israeli consumption, Sherwood’s claim that “600,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem consume almost six times as much water as 2.7 million Palestinians” couldn’t possibly be true.

Once again the Guardian cited a claim which is consistent with their anti-Israel narrative, but that simply is not backed up by the data.

140 comments on “Harriet Sherwood parrots false charge of ‘Water Apartheid’

  1. I support the lower figure of a ratio of 4 to 1, based on information obtained in the West Bank over the last 2 years. What you need to include is the amount of water consumed by settlers for agricultural purposes. This then easily boosts the ratio up to 4:1. You need to send someone to the area to ascertain the practical reality for you. Relying upon reports gets you no nearer the actual real truth – does it?

  2. ” couldn’t possibly be true. ”

    Actual figures would be more helpful . For example the 1000 homes that have been given the go ahead this morning in the middle of peace negotiations. This is only a BBC figure and is probably anti Israeli …I mean the Israelis couldn’t be so silly as to do this… it couldn’t possibly be true

    • You mean it couldn’t possibly be true that Abbas was so foolish as to declare that any land the Palestinians were given would be totally free of Jews. Not to mention being all set to honor the murderers that Israel was forced to give up as a precondition to “peace talks” as a good-will gesture. What sort of people honor murderers? Certainly not people who want peace!

      • Sorry I misheard the news it was 1200 homes. Whilst negotiating for peace. You’ve really got to love them .They must have basketballs down there if you get my drift

        • Read up on Oslo, Sam.

          The Israeli prime minister was shot because of it.

          Basketballs, Sam. I hear you’re into that kind of thing.

          Show some respect and actually educate yourself.

    • You couldn’t possibly be totally ignorant of the Oslo agreement, can you? I mean, you seem so interested in peace and justice in the Middle East that you’re here, right, showing your support. And yet you seem completely oblivious to the notions lettered out by Oslo that indicates a parcel of land that will go to the Palestinian state (area A), a parcel of land bound to the Israeli state (area B), and a parcel of land that needs continued negotiation (area C).

      I bet you think the Israeli construction is happening in areas A or C. Ain’t that right? Well, Sam, how would you feel if that construction is happening in area B? Does that change your opinion about what possibly could and can’t be true?

      Again, you’re so educated, and you’ve got so much to add to these discussions.

      I am eagerly anticipating your response.

      • The Oslo Agreement was meant to be temporary and should have been fully implemented well before the year 2000. It never has been. The situation now is much less clear-cut and I believe some Palestinian politicians now consider the Oslo Agreement to be null and void, though where this leaves everyone is hard to say. This is something that may be sorted out during the current talks in the USA. For the sakes of all concerned, let us hope they do sort something out which is satisfactory for all Israelis and Palestinians.

        • That was not temporary. It led directly to the offered state solution of 2000 which was offered again two more times before Netanyahu confirmed with Obama this past year that, yes, the deal is still on the table.

          Nothing coming out of your mouth or from your side seems conscionable regarding the already made agreements between the two parties of what you claim to be the most contentious issue on the planet.

          Simply put, you are amazingly dense. Stunningly so, actually.

          • you are amazingly dense

            I disagree.

            I don’t think he’s dense, or (particularly) ignorant. I think he’s simply someone who twists any argument to support the “Palestinians are mistreated by the nasty Israelis” thesis.

            In other words, not stupid, just malevolent.

  3. The Palestians must be having trouble filling up all their swimming pools.

    A couple of years ago I noticed that some organization called Avaaz claimed over a million signatures on a petition for Palestinian Arab statehood – but in reality they inflated those numbers by orders of magnitude.

    Not surprisingly, Avaaz is addicted to lies:
    It was the hottest week of the year. All Fadel Jaber wanted was some water for his family. But Fadel lives in the occupied West Bank, where the Israeli government has redirected water pipes to provide swimming pools for Jewish settlers and empty faucets for Palestinians like Fadel.
    Those poor thirsty Palestinian Arabs!

    It must be because all the swimming pools in the Arab areas are taking all of their water!

    Here’s a partial list of those pools, filled with the scarce water that is causing so many Palestinian Arabs to go thirsty. I am mostly listing clubs with the word “swimming” in their names; many sports clubs and hotels have pools as well.

    Haddad Tourism Village, Jenin:

    Ein Almarj Tourist Resort in Ramallah:

    Palestine Park

    Al-Karmel Swimming Pool & Park, Beit Kahil, Hebron
    Al-Antoori Swimming Pool & Park, Sofin, Qalqilia
    Al-Batroun Swimming Pool & Park, Al-libban Al-gharbi, Ramallah
    Al-Dhahiriya Swimming Pool & Park, Jorat Al-dammeh, Al-dhahiriya
    Al-Nakheel Swimming Pool & Park, Main St., Downtown, Jericho
    Al-Qarawan Swimming Center, Al-Mal’ab St.,Near the Zoo, Ghayyadha, Qalqilia
    Al-Qemmah Swimming Pool & Park, Jericho, Jericho
    Al-Shaghour Swimming Pool, Main St., Beit Iba, Nablus
    Al-Snowbar Diving Pool, Restaurant & Resort Near Y-College, Al-masayef, Ramallah
    Al-Waha Swimming Pool & Park, Al-Quds St. Downtown, Jericho
    Al-Waha Swimming Pools & Park, Qalqilia St.,Far’un Crossroad, Far’un, Tulkarm
    Aroos Al-Shamal Park, Swimming Pool & Hall, Nablus St.,Near Al-Quds Open University Al-sweitat, Jenin
    Beit Ummar Swimming Pool & Park, Municipality St.,Near Beit Ummar Municipality Beit Ummar, Hebron
    Besan Swimming Pool & Park, Ein Al-Sultan St. Ein Al-sultan, Jericho
    Dream Land Tourist Resort & Swimming Pool Nuba, Hebron
    Dream Restaurant & Swimming Pool Main St. Jifna , Ramallah
    Howara Country Swimming Pool, Howara, Nablus
    Jericho Investment & Tourism ( Banana Land, pictured to the left ) Al-Mo’arajat Road Ein Al-dyouk, Jericho
    Ni’lin Tourist Park & Swimming Pool, Main St. Ni’lin , Ramallah
    Stars Swimming Pool & Park, Main St.,Town Entrance Arraba, Jenin
    Tal Al-Marah Swimming Pool & Restaurant, Qoseen Crossroad, Beit Iba, Nablus
    Tal Al-Rabee’ Swimming Pools, Ezbit Naser, Tulkarm
    The Swimming Pool , Park & Restaurant of ” Ean El-Hammam “, Behind Birzeit Municipality, Birzeit, Ramallah
    Wahat Al-Bathan Swimming Pool

    • Dave: That IS a pretty astonishing list.
      How recently have you visited them all and checked that they are all filled with water?

        • No – but one of the pictures supplied by someone else on this blog is at least 3 years old so it is hard to know just how up-to-date the facts supplied are. What I have seen with my own eyes is the toxic pollution caused by Barkan and Ariel in the Salfeet area, and how other illegal Israeli settlements are polluting areas like Wadi Qana, which is a considerable shame as it is a natural beauty spot, which is being ruined by Israel and deterring Palestinian families from enjoying simple pleasures like sharing a picnic together on a day out. They too are human beings and they too ought to be able to experience warm familial relations with one another. Do you not agree?

          • The Barkan Industrial Park is in an Israeli settlement located in the northern West Bank, about 25 km east of Tel Aviv and 8 km west of Salfit. It is part of the Ariel settlement bloc. Founded in 1982, the park is the largest industrial park in the West Bank and the second largest in Israel. It currently includes about 120 businesses and factories manufacturing plastics, metal-work, food, textile, and more. About 6,000 workers are employed in the park, about 40% of them are Palestinians.

            Strange to see something with his own eyes of which in 2012 the experts write only in terms of enviromental hazards and source of future threats , but no empirical foundings. The waste sites, in this sense, are threatening all inhabitants, not only Palestinians, as the nazi implies. He fabricates history, exe witness, what comes next?

            • My understanding is that some of the firms in Barkan are there because they are not allowed to set up such businesses in Israel on environmental grounds. The rest of your comments are largely inexplicable.

            • Some of the firms located in Barkan are there because they are not allowed to be established in Israel on environmental grounds. The toxic pollutants can be seen and smelled in the stream which flows down into the wadi from Barkan.
              I have seen and smelled the polluted water twice – in 2012 and 2013.
              Water supplies to land and villages like Kafr Deik and Broqeen are so badly polluted that people are reluctant to eat crops grown there or to consume milk or meat from animals located there. Rising incidences of declining health among children have been reported, with growths in cancers being widely claimed.
              We arranged for a member of the House of Lords and a Member of the House of Commons to visit the area to witness the pollution. The UK Government Minister for the Middle East – Mr Burt – is also aware of the level of toxic pollution being emitted from Barkan.
              I do not base my comments solely on reading about such phenomena.
              Where I can, I base my remarks on actual observations I have myself made.

          • Going on a picnic in such hot day without water?
            You must be mad!

            I agree with you that pollution is terrible and inexcusable!
            This goes for both Israeli and Palestinian local councils where such actions occuer!

            I can tell you though that a large portion of the ME (Arab or Jew) pollute.

            http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4168415,00.html

            Not sure how far has the eco park gone.

            I’d like to point you to this article:

            http://foeme.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/cross-border-cooperation-over-industrial-wastewater-pollution-a-good-water-neighbors-priority-initiative/

            “These streams face a deep environmental degradation, whose main cause is sewage pollution originating from the West Bank, both from domestic and industrial sources. Today, most of the sewage from the Greater Tulkarem area is channeled to the Yad Hanna waste water treatment plant (WWTP), adjacent to the Separation Barrier, on the Israeli side in Emek Hefer. But the Yad Hanna WWTP is failing to cope with the growing quantities and problematic composition of mixed industrial and domestic sewage that reaches the plant. An upgrade of the plant is required, both for coping with the challenging composition of sewage and its quantity and for meeting the new stringent Inbar Standards for sewage treatment and stream flow in Israel. Meanwhile, treatment of domestic sewage is on its way in the Palestinian side: by the end of 2012, the West Nablus WWTP will be ready to receive domestic sewage from West Nablus and progressively from the Greater Tulkarem area.

            Collection of olive mill wastewater akar / zebar, Tulkarem area.
            The issue of industrial sewage is trickier: the Palestinian Water Authority is advancing projects to enable collection of industrial sewage, although the best available solution has not been identified yet, both in terms of environment and finance. The industrial sewage mostly results from Palestinian stone cutting and sesame and olive mill industries in the area, which causes high levels of pollution when channeled, untreated into the natural streams. Each year between October and December, the 26 olive mills of the area discharge into nearby streams what is locally known as “akar” or ”zebra”: the wastewater of the olive oil production process, which contains a high organic load and has a toxic effect on all life forms in the streams. Frequent waste dumping from sesame industry into stream waters contribute drastically to the rise in its salinity. Finally, the stone cutting industry produces slurry: a fluid mixture consisting of lime powder and water that is also dumped into the streams. This dense wastewater cannot be treated in an intensive WWTP. Therefore, in order to protect the streams and the groundwater, there is an acute need to implement an “at source” approach to all these forms of industrial wastewater, preventing all discharge into the natural environment. Miscommunication and lack of coordination between the two sides leads to greater mistrust about pollution control. The situation is pushing Israel to develop its own “end of pipe” solutions, in the Israeli side, without coordination with the “at source” Palestinian investments: leading to double investment and smaller chances of success.”

            So, you see, it is not all Israel…

            • Thank you for the information – some of which is new to me. I agree that anti-pollution work “at source” would be very much better, particularly in areas like Barkan and Ariel. As you also point out, suspicion about the motives of other parties does not help very much. One thing that tends to reinforce such suspicions is the very much higher financial charge levels Palestinians get charged compared to Israeli settlers – though, I have to admit, such accusations are based on hearsay and without any actual details. It is, still, an area where co-operation which benefits all parties could at least be aimed at to secure a better future for all.

          • On another level of how local authorities and resident’s attitude cause friction with nature is this report from yesterday about a wild boar attacking a 16 year old boy early morning.
            This happened in the Arab border city of Umm Al Fahm in Wadi Ara Israel.

            It appears that the boy’s father draw an obvious conclusion with the Arab authorities lack of clearing rubbish which causes the pigs to enter the town at night in search of food and potential attacks can occur.
            The Arab Mayor states that the rubbish is being cleared but people keep throwing rubbish in the street.

            Umm El Fahm residents consider themselves to be Palestinians in general but refuse any future exchange where they’re passports will be taken from them and they will be handed Palestinian passports instead.

            The reason why I bring this up is to show that problems exist in Arab areas just as well (if not more) and it is due to bad behaviour or mismanagement rather than lack of funding.

            אביו של הנער הוסיף: “זה מקרה מאוד חמור. אנחנו סובלים כבר הרבה שנים מהחזירים שמסתובבים בשכונה. פנינו כמה פעמים לעיריית אום אל-פחם במטרה לנקות את השכונה מהזבל שנזרק אצלנו בשכונה וגורם לחזירים להגיע, אבל לצערי אין תוצאות”. דודו של הנער התחייב: “אנו לא נעבור על העניין בשתיקה”, ואף אמר כי בני המשפחה שוקלים להגיש תביעה משפטית נגד הגורמים האחראים להתפשטות החזירים.

            ראש העיר, השייח חאלד חמדאן, אמר כי מדובר בתופעה חדשה, אך החזירים כבר מסתובבים בכמה שכונות. “המצב מאוד מדאיג ונמצא בטיפול. אנו שוקלים להעסיק ציידים מורשים ומקצועיים שיצודו את החזירים”. עוד אמר: “לצערי הרבה אנשים שופכים זבל בשכונות המגורים הסמוכות ליערות, וזה מה שגורם להגעת החזירים למקומות הללו. העירייה מנקה זבל שנזרק אבל אנשים ממשיכים לשפוך זבל”.

            http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4416490,00.html

            • I cannot interpret the Hebrew version of the article and the English automatic translator does not provide a very good alternative. You have drawn my attention to an issue which also affects the Palestinian areas, where they too are plagued by wild pigs, which makes tendering their fields extremely difficult. One of the commenters suggested that licenced hunters needed to be engaged to reduce the wild pig threats.
              Perhaps such an initiative could be extended to include areas of the West Bank?

              • In Haifa and northern Israel the Wild Boar soaring numbers can be drawn to the green party laws which prevented hunting.

                add to this the buildup and expantion towards the green belt and you can see where boars can live.
                Add to this the poor attitude of dumping rubbish in the street and the corrupt local authoraties in removing such rubbish and you can see where we end up.

                The main point is that local authorities should be held accountable whether Palestinian or Israeli.
                Sadly a large portion of individual blame one side in a knee jerk reaction.

      • So now you are out to deprive all Palestinian children from having access to swimming pools? You are so brave – I am sure all your bone head friends are speechless with admiration.

            • John, the same amount as you have witnessed when those greedy Israelis / Jews (I can smell another Medieval libel masquerading as progressive humanitarianism here John) leave their taps running when brushing their teeth, water their gardens with reckless abandon and piss in their swimming pools full of stolen Palestinian water while laughing diabolically. Fits your progressive narrative so well John, that someone as sanctimonious as yourself, wouldn’t need to witness this for themselves.

              • Groovy: with a name like yours, I have to assume you were “on” something when you wrote your comment. Next time, I suggest you wait until the effects have worn off before opening your mouth and sticking your foot right down inside it.

              • Thank you for the link. Having checked the Properties of one of the pictures, I see it is a 2010_07_20_4660_9.JPG picture. This suggests the picture is over 3 years old. It may still be like that today but – after 3 years – who can be certain?

              • Alexa: I hoped you would be capable of better comments than the ones we routinely view from Fritz. I have not been to Sabra or Shatila – if that is what you are referring to – but you must know that the Israeli government commissioned a report into those massacres and accepted responsibility for them. Is that what you have in mind?

                • The nazi lies, the government report clearly states that the massacre was performed by the Phalangists and condems Sharon and military officers for not taking appropriate measures to prevent and to stop the massacre as it had been their duty to protect the civil population eben when taking into account that armed militants were inside Shabra and Shatila.
                  They should have forseen what would happen as in the Libanese civil war many mutual massaces took place, but the question remains unsolved if the search action for armed militants morphed into a massacre when fighting began, or if the Phalangists went in with the goal to take revenge for a massacre of Christians in the past time and to commit mass murder.

                • No one accuses Israel of massacring thousands of Palestinians every day.

                  at last some words of truth. Many however do accuse Israel of that.

          • alexa, don’t you know the rules?!
            Rule 1: Any claim that supports the Palestinian position is to be accepted uncritically.
            Rule 2: Any claim that exonerates Israel from the accusations of Israel-haters is to be subjected to stringent personal verification.

  4. Swiss graduate in thesis : PA uses water as a political weapon

    Burkart writes: ‘It is not the Israeli occupation policy but the Palestinian political resistance against joint management and cooperation that is responsible for the relatively slow development of the Palestinian water sector and the deteriorating human rights situation in the Palestinian Territories’ and ‘There is convincing evidence of mismanagement within the Palestinian Water Authority

    http://missingpeace.eu/en/2013/01/swiss-graduate-in-thesis-pa-uses-water-as-a-political-weapon/

    • Alexa: you have carried out a very useful piece of research in sourcing this report.
      I have not read it in full. What it confirms for me is that the PA is definitely part of the problem and – from the everyday perspective of ordinary Palestinians – they end up being caught between the PA and the Civil Administration of the IDF.
      Or, to put it another way – between a rock and a hard place.
      Most ordinary Palestinians are aware that the PA contributes towards their problems. Indeed, some of them consider the PA to be nothing short of a mafia.
      The only possible solution to this problem is if the talks in the USA can achieve some sort of two-state solution. Then – maybe – the PA will start to face up to its responsibilities and start acting like a proper government.
      Until then, the water problems in the West Bank (and Gaza?) will just carry on and on and on…….

      • The PA acts the way it does because under its “moderate” pose (for Westerners only!) it is still the same terrorist group that it was when they were called the PLO. Also, Abbas is still the same terrorist that he was when he was Arafat’s second-in-command of the PLO. He was never elected “president” and has done everything in his power to create an environment of hatred for Jews/Israelis in which no peace is possible. The Palestinians agreed to stop educating their people, especially children, to hate Israel when they signed the Oslo Accords. They also agreed to change their charter which specifically states the goal of the Palestinians is to eradicate Israel and REPLACE it with “Palestine,” NOT to live next to Israel in peace!!! Needless to say, the Palestinians have never fulfilled a single one of the points that they agreed to!

        • On a matter of accuracy, I believe Abbas was elected President once but his term of office expired some time ago. Due to the Fatah-Hams split, it has not been possible to organise an election with which to provide a fresh mandate for a new Palestine President. I have mentioned somewhere else that roughly 20 per cent of all homes in Nazareth Ilit are now owned by Palestinian-Israelis. If they can live peaceably side-by-side with Israelis, why should this not be possible everywhere else?
          My understanding is that Arafat personally agreed to the change of the PLO Charter.

          • No, Abbas was never elected; he was hand-picked by Arafat to follow him as leader and he did. There are no such thing as “Palestinian-Israelis;” there are Arab-Israelis who are citizens of Israel with full and equal rights, and there are Palestinians who refuse to recognize Israel at all.. There are Palestinians that would like normalization with Israel, but to say so publicly carries severe penalties. It’s not possible because for the past 20+ years, the PA/PLO as well as Hamas has been nurturing a culture of hatred for Jews/Israelis and Israel itself. How can you expect any Israeli to believe that the Palestinians want peace, when absolutely everything that they do and say proves they want nothing but Israel’s destruction and to kill as many Jews as they can? You’re right, Arafat did agree to change the PLO charter BUT HE NEVER DID!! You can go and check it for yourself. While you’re at it, I suggest that you check the PA and Hamas’ charter and definitely check what the Palestinians agreed to — but never fulfilled — in the Oslo Accords. BTW, the words to the PA’s and Hamas’ anthems both speak of killing Jews as opposed to Israeli’s beautiful anthem, Hatikvah which means hope in case you didn’t know. There is not a single Israeli song that glorifies killing and death as opposed to the Palestinians’ songs, poems, etc. which do.

            • My understanding is that Abbas was elected President of the Palestinian National Assembly on a Fatah ticket in an election on 15 January 2005 and he took up office on 8th May 2005. His term of office was due to end on 9th January 2009. Abbas was chosen as the President of the State of Palestine by the Palestine Liberation Organization’s Central Council on 23 November 2008, a job he had held unofficially since 8 May 2005.

              There was a 13 January 1998 letter from former President Arafat to then US President Clinton, in which Arafat confirmed ‘the PLO committed to recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security, to accept UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides. The PLO also agreed to secure the necessary changes in the Palestinian Covenant to reflect these commitments. Accordingly, the P.N.C. was held in Gaza city between 22-25 of April 1996, and in an extraordinary session decided that the “Palestine National Charter is hereby amended by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged between the P.L.O and the Government of Israel on 9/10 September 1993″.
              [Source: http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=428&CategoryId=10%5D

              However, subsequent internal and external pronouncements have left this area probably needing further clarification and I assume this will be “on the table” at the current talks in the USA. I understand your reservations on this topic.

              I cannot comment on song lyrics as I know nothing about these.

                • The elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), were held on 25 January 2006, i.e. after the earlier 2005 election of Abbas as President. Final results show that Hamas won the election, with 74 seats to the ruling-Fatah’s 45, providing Hamas with the majority of the 132 available seats and the ability to form a majority government on their own.
                  The almost automatic response of Israel, the USA and other Quartet countries was to immediately withhold funding from the new Hamas-led government and to promote conflict between Fatah and Hamas, which eventually led to a situation where the West Bank and Gaza parts of Palestine were fatally split.
                  If Hamas had been treated as the properly democratically elected government they were in 2006, it is possible that we would all have been in a different place to where we are today. What that would look like, of course, is very difficult to say.

  5. Poor Palestinians they first get blamed for the Nakba because they resisted the stealing of their lands – Now they get blamed for not getting enough water because they are not co-operating. I am sure if the Palestinians receive water they will co-operate with the person delivering it.

    Did this student write the thesis that convinced Tony Blair Iraq is on the brink of nuking UK within 45 minutes. These student theses are becoming very significant in international conflicts. Very dangerous trend do you not think? International conflicts require a much more serious reflection than just reading graduate thesis.

    • The Palestinians refuse to deal with Israelis, calling it ‘normalization’.
      Palestinians that do work with Israel are called collaborators.
      So when Israel tries to work with Palestinians to improve the water network in the West Bank, the Palestinians refuse to get involved, lest they be called collaborators.
      So yes, the Palestinians actively work to prevent any improvements to infrastructure if it involves Jews/Israelis who can actually make things better.

      • It is rather more complex than your description. As with all these matters, people tend to talk as though the Israelis and Palestinians share equal status and power.
        It is evident – on reflection – that they do not. Israel can force matters through any time it suits them – but the Palestinians do not have that same power.

        • No your buddies, nazi, lost wars ad they are still not ready to negotiate as long as Islam countries supply them with money and weapons, the EU and the world through te UN finances the daily life and nazis like you do their propaganda work.

  6. Adam,

    Sherwood’s statement on water usage is a really egregious error. I believe that you have occasionally convinced the Guardian to acknowledge similarly serious errors of fact. Any chance of achieving that in this case?

    • Since the “West Bank” is really Judea and Samaria and was only named the “West Bank” by Jordan when it conquered and occupied those lands from 1948-1967, Israel does indeed have every right to build, farm, or anything else on those lands. FYI, the Palestinians NEVER owned that land and there was NEVER any talk of creating a separate country out of those lands for Palestinians while it was under Jordan’s control!!

      • From the sea to the rive is all historic Palestine. Britain’s League of Nations Mandate (1917 to 1947) was in the name of Palestine. Whether or not the minor amount of land remaining can constitute an acceptable basis for a separate state will have to be seen. All this – for now – rests on the talks taking place in the USA.

        • “From the sea to the rive is all historic Palestine.” False.
          “Britain’s League of Nations Mandate (1917 to 1947) was in the name of Palestine.”
          Yes, in order to facilitate the reconstitution of the Jewish national home. The name was intimately connected with the Jews, not with a specific existing and exclusive Arab nationality, i.e., the Palestinian people. The British called anyone residing in the area Palestinians regardless of religious or ethnic background. The designation was simply geographical following a map of British design. You know this. Why pretend otherwise?

          • I wouldn`t seriously discuss with this nazi. He just keeps repeating all the lies, like “historic Palestine” or League of Nations Mandate to the river from 1917.
            The League was fouded 1919, the Mandate comprised the land now known as Jordania, the Jewish population of the Osman provices there was sometimes called Palestinians, there was only a Roman province named Palestine after a partial ethnic cleansing of the Jews by the Romans.

            • ” this nazi.”

              When I was a kid a Nazi was a Jew murdering, gay murdering horror. Now it is someone who has a political difference on the Middle East. Is it a humourous lack of vocabulary or the understanding of a bright 3 year old?

              • Not every nazi murdered Jews, some just propagated and propagates the murder of Jews, some just propagated and propagates ethnic cleansng and deportation, a lot looted, a few even rescued some Jews by whatever motifs, but in the end they all agreed to the “final solution”. Just like Al Hussaini and other Arab leaders who were supported by the Nazis in the Middle East.
                A lot of Nazis fed to Cairo and Damascus, became Muslims and some achieved important positions in the state bureaucracies, especialy in the security branches.
                The “Protocols” and Hitler`s autobiography are stil leading sellers throughout the Middle East, so shut up, idiot.

                • ” Al Hussaini ”

                  Yes the one senior Muslim who was a Nazi . How this chap is necessary for your narrative that Muslims are the new Nazis. You do know people of other religions..including surprising ones fought for the Nazis ..and one became a Field Marshal don’t you?

                • You are an Islamophob if you think that Muslims are Nazis.
                  What about the Nazi Party in Egypt, the Nazi allies in Syria, Iran and Iraq, you know nothing? If you want to defend them, just go on.

                • For once, Fritz, I will agree with one of your postings – at least, the more sensible part of it. I am aware that the Baath Parties in places like Iraq, Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East were clear sympathisers with the Nazi Party. They supported the Nazi ideology and – if the Nazis had won World War Two – not only would all those consuming the Judaic religion in Europe have been totally annihilated but so too would people with similar beliefs across the whole of the Middle East.
                  This reinforces my position that we in Britain did the right thing in opposing the Nazis all the way through to eventual victory against them. The nightmare scenario for all of us would have been a Nazi victory, whether religious or non-religious almost anywhere in today’s world.
                  But this also reinforces the need to act fairly and to be seen to act fairly. Israel has immense military and intellectual power at its disposal. It cannot be beyond their ability to resolve a simple matter such as achieving an outcome in their negotiations with the Palestinians to achieve an end result which all parties around the world can accept and – at the same time – achieve an acceptable security level for all Israelis.
                  So, why does the conflict continue when Israel can end it whenever it likes?

            • The only reference to Jordania I can find suggests it is a Spanish word for Jordan. We British – as far as I can see -have never referred to Jordan as Jordania. Are you sure you are using the correct appellation? Also, the Ancient Egyptians had records of Palestine – or a very similar name – which precedes even the artificial invention of a Jewish people or nation .

              • You refer to the “artificial invention of a Jewish people or nation”?

                Please explain. Or rather: don’t bother.

          • Jeff: where I will agree with you is that the British at the time of the Palestine Mandate were utterly racist. They did not consider the indigenous population in the area as anything other than pure labour. They did nothing for them or for anyone else, like the Jews, unless it served the ends of British imperialism.
            They had no intention of establishing an independent Palestine or an independent Israel. Passports in the name of Palestine, along with postage stamps and a British-Palestine flag were created.
            All these things indicate that Britain viewed Palestine as just another one of its many colonies around the world. None of this provided any legitimate basis for another independent country to be established. As I assume you know, this kind of mind-set continued until the early 1960s and the “wind of change” speech. Only after that, did Britain really bother to carry out post-colonialist development work – and by that time, it was too late for Palestine. Britain was remiss in causing today’s mess. No other way to put it. Now, Britain is too weak to do anything constructive about it.
            The solution can only come from the Israelis and Palestinians working together.

            • I don’t give a hoot where, or whether, you agree with me about anything.
              You don’t seem to realize that your dopy opinions are just that, and aren’t worth more than anyone else’s opinion.
              “All these things indicate that Britain viewed Palestine as just another one of its many colonies around the world. None of this provided any legitimate basis for another independent country to be established.”
              This is utterly meaningless drivel.
              “Now, Britain is too weak to do anything constructive about it.”
              So your preferred solution would be for Britain to be strong and powerful enough to once again meddle and dictate terms.

        • Ah, yes…. Historic Palestine. And what a history! Ottoman controlled… Brit controlled… Split into 74% Jordanian controlled. With all those leaders, you’d think there’d be a book about all the money they printed.

          Do tell us, John. Wontcha?

      • Israel does indeed have every right to build, farm, or anything else on those lands

        Eh? On what basis? Because Judea and Samaria were part of biblical Israel??

        • No, Judea, Samaria and ALL of Jerusalem were promised to Israel in the Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations and the UN. The lands were taken over by Jordan in 1948 who renamed them the “West Bank” and ethnically cleansed the lands of all Jews! It was JORDAN, NOT the “Palestinians,” who occupied that land and it was JORDAN, NOT the “Palestinians,” who fought Israel both in 1948 and 1967!! During those 19 years, while there were no Jews living on the lands, there was not even a whisper of a suggestion that those lands be turned into a “homeland” for the “Palestinians!” Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem WERE NEVER OWNED BY THE “PALESTINIANS” AND ISRAEL RECLAIMED THE LANDS IN 1967; THEY WERE NOT “OCCUPIED”!!!

          • And it was Jordan who did not fulfil its part of the bargain bu allowing Jews to pray at the wailing wall!

          • This is the wording of the Balfour Declaration: His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
            Note the reference to a Jewish homeland – not a Jewish state.
            Note also the use of the word Palestine (twice) in the declaration. This is proof that the whole area – from the sea to the river – was considered by Britain to be all part of the same area. It can be argued that by issuing the declaration, Britain was offering the same area to two different groups of people at the same time.
            The McMahon–Hussein Correspondence in 1915 encouraged the Arab Revolt against the Turks and was considered to promise a new future for a Palestine freed from Ottoman rule.
            The secret Sykes-Picot agreement of 1917 effectively carved up most of the Middle East between British and French areas of control and influence, leaving Palestine as part of the British area of influence and control but with no new Jewish homeland or state being on offer, in contravention of the Balfour Declaration.
            It is evident that Britain – in the end years of World War One – was making all sorts of promises to all kinds of people in its pursuit of victory in the war and to cement in place arrangements simply suited to its own long-term imperial goals.
            It is little wonder that the term Perfidious Albion became minted !!
            Where I will agree with you is that Jordan has never ever really acted in the best interests of the Palestinians – or anyone else, for that matter. With “friends” like Jordan, the Palestinians are left asking, “With friends like that, who needs enemies?”

            • JD

              “…or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

              Now you clearly see where the problem lies don’t you?
              Asking people in Iraw, Egypt, Syria, Libya or Jordan (where Jews resided pre 1948) to respect the rights of their Jews is like asking a bear or a dear to shop at Walmart and pay using its credit card.
              It doesn’t happen.

              • Yet those same families had lived peaceably in other Middle Eastern countries for decades and centuries before the Nakba. Do you see any correlation between the two events? Not, I hasten to add, that I see any equivalence between the two events. It was wrong of the nearby Arab countries to force out Jewish families who had been living in the area for centuries because of the Nakba.

                • The Arabs first tried to wipe out Israel at birth. It didn’t work. John conveniently calls this “Nakba,” a tragedy that “befell” the Palestinian people (whom no one had really ever heard of) while they weren’t looking, apparently. This frustrated the Arabs so. Fortunately for them they conveniently had Jews living amongst them to take it out on. Yes John, I see a connection, I just don’t see any justification that would jive with a progressive agenda of human rights or the law of nations. Objectively speaking, this was outright criminal behavior with no room to fudge with terms you use like “Nakba.” Contrast this with Israel which absorbed most of these Jews driven from countries where they were supposed to have had citizenship, without driving out any Arab Israeli citizens in retaliation. They could have, you know, but fortunately for its Arab citizens Israel was founded on the western interpretations of the rule of law. Once Israel had absorbed all these Jews from Arab countries (many of whom owed their own national existences to the same international mandate system from which Israel had been created), the Arab states figured they’d try again to wipe Israel (no WB, no Gaza) off the map again.

          • Judea, Samaria and ALL of Jerusalem were promised to Israel in the Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations and the UN

            Wishing that were so does not it make true, I’m afriad.

            • Pretz.
              Though technicaly you may be right about the exact boundaries in the said declaration, you cannot back away from the agreement signed in 1919.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal-Weizmann_Agreement

              The United Nations Special Committee On Palestine did not regard the agreement as ever being valid,[18] while Weizmann continued to maintain that the treaty was still binding. In 1947 Weizmann explained :

              “A postscript was also included in this treaty. This postscript relates to a reservation by King Feisal that he would carry out all the promises in this treaty if and when he would obtain his demands, namely, independence for the Arab countries. I submit that these requirements of King Feisal have at present been realized. The Arab countries are all independent, and therefore the condition on which depended the fulfillment of this treaty, has come into effect. Therefore, this treaty, to all intents and purposes, should today be a valid document”.

              The Zionist fulfilled their side of the burgain.
              It is evident the other side refused to carry out their part.
              According to C.D. Smith the Syrian National Congress had forced Faisal to back away from his tentative support of Zionist goals.

              • What do you mean “exact boundaries”? The Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations and the UN did not promise Judea, Samaria and ALL of Jerusalem to Israel – did they?

                • @ alexa

                  So essentially – they didn’t (promise Judea, Samaria and all of Jerusalem to Israel ), did they?

                  And no response from ItsikDeWembley, I see.

                • “The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country [ Palestine] under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home,

                  A country from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean Sea include both Judea and Samaria as well as Jerusalem.

  7. No, you’re wrong about that too. There has never, in all recorded history, been a sovereign country called “Palestine!” The name “Palestine” (or rather Palestina) was given to the lands of Judaea when, after being conquered by the Romans, the Emperor Hadrian punished the Jews because of the Bar Kochba rebellion, by exiling them and trying to erase the Jewish connection to the land by renaming it after the Jews’ enemies, the Philistines. But, Palestina was a region, not a country. When the Turks conquered the land (the Ottoman Empire), a very large land mass without distinct borders, was known as the Palestinian TERRITORY; it was also not an independent country. This lasted until WWI when Britain and France divided up the Middle East between them. One of the reasons that Britain got the Palestine Mandate was because they promised to create a homeland in Palestine for the Jews (the Balfour Declaration). But Britain betrayed the Jews and took 77% of the Mandate and created (Trans) Jordan. An important point, though, is that Jordan’s border ended at the EAST SIDE of the Jordan River! It was during the War of Independence when Israel was attacked by seven Arab armies (but not one of them was “Palestinian”), that Jordan conquered Judea, Samaria and part of Jerusalem and forced the tens of thousands of Jews from their homes. They were ethnically cleansed before that term came to be so misused! It is Eretz Yisroel (the Land of Israel), which has had Jews living there except for a few years after they were exiled and the 19 years that the land was occupied by Jordan (not the Palestinians)!!! There’s so much more but I really hope that you verify what I’ve said. Only be sure your sources are prior to 1967 and better still if they’re before 1948.

    • The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c.1150 BCE during the Twentieth dynasty of Egypt. The first mention is thought to be in texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, which record a people called the Peleset among the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III’s reign.[10]

      The Assyrians called the same region Palashtu or Pilistu, beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c.800 BCE through to emperor Sargon II, in his Annals approximately a century later.[1][11][12]

      The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece.[13] Herodotus wrote of a ‘district of Syria, called Palaistinê” in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[14][15][16][17] and formed part of the 5th Persian satrapy (νομός).[18]

      Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing “Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake (λίμνη) in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them,” understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea.

      Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine.

      As you can see, the use of the term Palestine – or something similar – long predates the emergence of any other power grouping in the area, including Hebrews.

      Even the Balfour Declaration – which you cite – refers to Palestine on two occasions.

      Eretz Israel was represented in a map presented to the 1919 Versailes Peace Conference by the Zionists as stretching from the River Nile to the Euphrates. They evidently had far great ambitions than the one you represent today. The big question is do they still harbour ambitions to include all that territory in an Eretz or Great Israel today – and is that why the boundaries of Israel have never been defined in the Israeli Constitution?

      Where I am in agreement with you is in castigating the behaviour of the British in promising all things to all people during the First World War, when they had no intention whatsoever of delivering on any of the promises made and on the abysmal conduct of the Jordan regime, who only ever followed their own interests and not those of the Palestinian [people. Ultimately, the British and the Jordanian ambitions have both been frustrated – which is not bad thing – but the mess they have both left behind has left the Israelis and the Palestinians mired in deep conflict.

      I hope the current talks taking place in the USA will result in some sort of acceptable compromise so that both groups of people can enjoy a degree of independence and security going on into the future.

      • Some lies of the wiki educated nazi again
        Pelesets does not refer to Palestine as indicated by the Wiki educated, but to invading people whose origin is contested.
        Herodot wrote “Palaistine”, clearly referring to the Philistines and an area comprising Jordan, Libanon and Syria, too, by using second hand references, relying on second Hand accounts from the Persian empire.
        The first fragmented hard copy of the Histories we have dates from 900 AD.
        The nazi writes:
        “As you can see, the use of the term Palestine – or something similar – long predates the emergence of any other power grouping in the area, including Hebrews.”
        The compilation of the Tanakh was finished around 450 BC, the time when Herodot started to gathered his sources and informants. Although the original Tanakh doesn`t exist anymore, hard copies date much earlier than those of Herodot. The archaeological facts, although Arabs tried to destroy as much as possible of evidences of the Jewish history, are easy to trace on the Internet.

        Besides being intellectually otherwise gifted, he tries to bullshit as every wiki educated nazi writing
        “The McMahon–Hussein Correspondence in 1915 encouraged the Arab Revolt against the Turks and was considered to promise a new future for a Palestine freed from Ottoman rule.”
        which is just a lie, or
        “Also, the Ancient Egyptians had records of Palestine – or a very similar name – which precedes even the artificial invention of a Jewish people or nation .”
        You kow this is a classic repetition of Nazi, Antisemitic and racist arguments constructed by the duality organic/bological versus artificial/invented, the backbone of the racism against Jews.
        One great difference of Antisemitism to normal racism is the fear of the superiority of Jews and it returns when the nazi writes, excluding the context of surrounding Islamic countries who feed Palestinian terror since sixty years, economically boycott Israel and are in war with Israel:
        ” Israel has immense military and intellectual power at its disposal. It cannot be beyond their ability to resolve a simple matter such as achieving an outcome in their negotiations with the Palestinians ”
        And as revisionist nazi and supporter of antisemitic Arabs he adresses Jews as nazi and implicates that they are responsible for their destruction by posting that Jews were the ethnical cleanser of themselves,

        http://cifwatch.com/2013/08/08/are-jews-the-most-incompetent-ethnic-cleansers-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-133151

        that they began the hostilities against the nazis by the call for boycott
        http://cifwatch.com/2013/08/08/are-jews-the-most-incompetent-ethnic-cleansers-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-132950and that only dead Jews are good Jews

        http://cifwatch.com/2013/08/08/are-jews-the-most-incompetent-ethnic-cleansers-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-133143

        The mindset of an Antisemite we know from many other self aggrandised idiots and low lifers and nazis who came to the site to explain who Jews are, where Jews are from and why they are responsible for every thing (again the underlying fear)
        The evolution of Atisemitism comprises nowadays the denial of Antisemitism as unfitting term, too, the defintion of Zionist as non Jews and even worse than nazis, by this revoking the manichaen view of good and evil, and the Christian and Islamic damonisation and incarnation of Jews, the devil.

        Roma locuta, causa finita.
        Kick that nazi out, Adam.

      • “The term Peleset” has absolutely nothing to do with the Arabs. It has zero to do with the Palestine Mandate. The inspiration for that comes from a quite different tradition, and… you’re a Nazi.

        • Now you are making spurious accusations. Who is next, I wonder? Perhaps it is the next one on-shift in the control room? You must get bored sitting around all day with so little to do. Are you not glad I come along and provide some purpose for your day? This will probably be one of my last posts as I have a busy day tomorrow and I cannot simply be here to help you draw your pay cheque every day.

          • A nazi helping Jews? Isn`t he cude? The old Antisemite Trope, the gentile works for the payment of Jews.
            Kick that Nazi out, Adam.

      • The point is not whether or not the word “Palestine” was ever used to refer to an area of land (and your bits of “historical” data are irrelevant and incorrect). The fact is that there has NEVER, in all recorded history, a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY called “Palestine”!!! For the record, the vast majority of Arabs came to the Palestinian TERRITORY (part of the Ottoman Empire) AFTER THE JEWS from other parts of the Middle East because after the Jews reclaimed the land, which was barren (swamps in the north and deserts in the south), the land could support more people. Many times in the 19th and early 20th centuries, there were more Jews than Arabs who lived on that land, particularly in Jerusalem! FYI, while the British ruled the mandate, Arabs refused to call themselves “Palestinians” because they associated the name with colonialism; they called themselves an Arabic word (which I don’t remember) meaning “southern Syrian! In any event, the Arabs in both the territory and the mandate, were a conglomerate of many different people; they did not have (and still don’t have!) a separate culture of their own and were not considered a separate political entity until 1967!! Neither the League of Nations nor the UN used the word “Palestinian” in any document prior to that date (including Resolution 242), neither did ANY news media, including Arab ones. (Just like you won’t find the “West Bank” on ANY map prior to 1948!!) Go ahead and check it out; I dare you!

    • But Britain betrayed the Jews and took 77% of the Mandate and created (Trans) Jordan.

      You talk as if the British had promised the Jews all the territory including what is now Jordan!
      a) They didn’t.
      b) Why would they have anyway?

      • How could Britain promise Palestine to the Jews when they had already promised it through the McMahon correspondence to the Arabs? They kept their promise by appointing the Saud King of Arabia and the Hashemite King of Jordan.
        I am a bit shaky on this but I think they also appointed Arab leaders to kingships in Iraq and Egypt, and may have had a hand in getting the Shah of Iran in place?
        For their own imperial ambitions, they then took the Mandate for Palestine for their own purposes – no one else, regardless of the largely empty promises contained in the Balfour Declaration. That is a fact.

        • Not really
          British Government stated:

          “We think it sufficient for the purposes of this Report to state that the British Government have never accepted the Arab case. When it was first formally presented by the Arab Delegation in London in 1922, the Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. Churchill) replied as follows: – ‘That letter [Sir H. McMahon’s letter of the 24th October, 1915] is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognize and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the district of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty’s Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir H. McMahon’s pledge.’

          “It was in the highest degree unfortunate that, in the exigencies of war, the British Government was unable to make their intention clear to the Sherif. Palestine, it will have been noticed, was not expressly mentioned in Sir Henry McMahon’s letter of the 24th October, 1915. Nor was any later reference made to it. In the further correspondence between Sir Henry McMahon and the Sherif the only areas relevant to the present discussion which were mentioned were the Vilayets of Aleppo and Beirut. The Sherif asserted that these Vilayets were purely Arab; and, when Sir Henry McMahon pointed out that French interests were involved, he replied that, while he did not recede from his full claims in the north, he did not wish to injure the alliance between Britain and France and would not ask ‘for what we now leave to France in Beirut and its coasts’ till after the War.

  8. FYI: I’ve added a Water Authority graph to illustrate the stats cited in my paragraph about average water use in Israel and the Palestinian territories.

    • OK, Adam. But you have still to show where Sherwood “parrots false charge of ‘Water Apartheid’”.
      Presumably because she did no such thing.

  9. Adam appreciate you supplying figures from the Israeli Water Board. Here are some figures quoted on Wikipedia – a more independent source, would you not agree?

    “Compared to other countries in the Middle East and North Africa, water supply and sanitation in the Palestinian territories are characterized by severe water shortage, which is exacerbated by the effects of Israeli occupation. According to the WaSH Monitoring Programme, Israelis use 87% of the water available from the mountain aquifer in the West Bank, and 82% of the water from the coastal aquifer under Gaza.[7][8]”

    Considering West Bank is an occupied Palestine that 87% of water available in the West bank is used by the occupiers, I would suggest is extremely unfair to the Palestinians and perhaps even illegal. Anyway, Wikipedia figures puts the whole thing in perspective,

  10. How utterly preposterous to suggest one group of people inherently use lots more water than another.

  11. Of course it does alexa – with a mission statement that clearly states “The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies (also known by its acronym, the BESA Center) advances a realist, conservative, and Zionist agenda in the search for security and peace for Israel. The center conducts policy-relevant research on strategic subjects, particularly as they relate to the national security and foreign policy of Israel and Middle East regional affairs.”

    How can it be otherwise – totally objective world view as seen by the Zionist eyes.

      • Alexa, Rafi doesn’t like things written or made by Jews unless it’s to save his life, ease his life.
        He’ll make an exception about Levis.

    • The center has developed cooperative relations with leading strategic research institutes throughout the world, from Ankara to Washington and from London to Seoul. The Center conducts specialized research on contract to the Israeli foreign affairs and defense establishment, and for NATO.

      • forget him:
        The change from ranamirza to Rafi Mirza, from NSIsmail to Antisemite Rana won`t help this member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases like Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
        Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.

  12. Do you think we should be taking lessons in the history of racism from the Professors at the Berlin University under the Third Reich committed to fascism. I would think no? Should we read the occupation of France as viewed by the Berlin Professor who dressed it up as liberation. I think not. But than I think the fascists would have done what you are doing taking the Zionist propaganda to sanitize occupation and repression.

  13. The change from ranamirza to Rafi Mirza, from NSIsmail to Antisemite Rana won`t help you, antisemitic member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases like Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
    Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.

  14. There have been significant number responses to one of my comments, which makes it impossible for me to respond to all of them individually. So, I will post this separate comment in response to them all.

    The principal issue revolves around my assertion that ben Gurion had a low opinion of holocaust survivors, in particular those who were involved in Judenrates and who had worked in the death camps as kapos – often observed as being even more ferocious in maintaining discipline than the Nazi guards.

    Ben Gurion – and many other Zionists after 1945 – held a very low opinion of these survivors, though ben Gurion later opined that it was their mental toughness and determination to survive against all odds that made them ideal builders of a new Israel.

    How else to explain the Israeli Nazi and Nazi Collaborators Punishment Law of 1950?

    Ben Gurion and his fellow Zionists deliberately ensured that survivors would not be sent anywhere else other than Palestine, as he needed them to help the new Israel gain a critical mass in terms of number. Quantity – not quality –was what mattered at the outset.

    Therefore, the mass expulsion of Mizrahi Jews was covertly welcomed by Ashkenazi Zionists like ben Gurion, as it helped to boost the population of the new Israel from 800,000 in 1948 to 2,000,000 by 1958.

    As Tom Segev has said: “After the war Ben-Gurion’s greatest fear was that the Holocaust survivors might not want to come to the Land of Israel; he did not fear for their fate—after all, they had been saved; he feared that there might not be sufficient manpower to establish the state.”

    Subsequent attempts by revisionist historians to resurrect the legacy of ben Gurion have tried to put an alternative set of explanations on his behavour – see, for example, Yechiam Weitz Dialectical versus Unequivocal – Israeli Historiography’s Treatment of the Yishuv and Zionist Movement Attitudes toward the Holocaust – but I find these attempts at revising ben Gurion’s legacy unpersuasive.

    Thank you to all those who confirmed that St George was from Lydda. He is said to have been born there sometime between 275 and 291 CE in the Roman province of Syria Palæstina and was buried there after his execution in Nicomedia (now in modern-day Turkey) in 303 CE. This does not undermine my basic question, “Why is he a patron saint of England?” He never lived there or died there. It makes no sense, does it?

    What is interesting in the terms of this and may other debates is that his place of birth is confirmed as being in Palestine in the Third Century, which undermines all the claims that Palestine has never existed, does it not?

    Also, that his martyrdom took place in Turkey – so this can be construed as him being a Palestinian person who acquired his sainthood in Turkey.

    One parrot to this blog keeps on making the same empty-headed assertion – that I am a Nazi. This is completely off the track. It is about the only response he has to anything he disagrees with. Well, these empty allegations will not deter me from telling the truth. If he – or others like him – wants to keep on making such unwarranted allegation, there is nothing I can do about their crude stupidity. But know this: such stupid behaviour gains no friends for the cause of truth. I will continue to ignore all similar empty-headed insults.

    • JD:

      “One parrot to this blog keeps on making the same empty-headed assertion – … is completely off the track… Well, these empty allegations … If he – or others like him – wants to keep on making such unwarranted allegation… their crude stupidity. But know this: such stupid behaviour gains no … truth. …continue to ignore all similar empty-headed …”

      Your life in a nut shell.
      Copy and paste, lie and twist things.

    • Than it seem Ben Gurion and his zionist friends made a bad job about the holocaust surviver as many of them didn;t actullay come to Israel.
      How else to explain the Israeli Nazi and Nazi Collaborators Punishment Law of 1950?
      I am sorry you make no sense.

  15. I’m amazed by the level of energy hate mongers contribute to this site.

    Talk about determination.

    Tell you what, Johnboy and Rafi. Hold your breaths until we change our minds. That’ll show us.

    • I have said it before, “When you point a finger – three fingers point back”.
      This means – in case you cannot work it out – that the accusation you are making applies to yourself three-fold.
      I am not a hate-monger but it seems you are, though why you waste your time with it – instead of trying to be constructive – is difficult to know.
      I hope it does not indicate a totally closed mind.

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