Irish Times report includes false claim about BDS impact on Jerusalem Light Rail


An Aug. 3rd story in the Irish Times on renewed Israeli-Palestinian negotiations (Gradual Israeli takeover of Palestinian land seems to leave little enough to negotiate) was slanted to a degree that it truly could have been written by the Palestinian Ministry of Propaganda.  Though we’ve only recently been following the Irish Times, if this report is any indication of the general orientation of the paper’s coverage of the region, we’re going to be spending a lot of time in the future scrutinizing their claims.

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The story was written by Frank McDonald, (the paper’s environmental correspondent), who cites such fair arbiters of justice as the kangaroo court of despots known as the UN Human Rights CouncilB’tselem, and professional Israel basher Henry Sigman to ‘demonstrate’ that talks between the two parties are doomed due to the encroachment of “settlements.”  McDonald even cites, to buttress his claims about Israel’s alleged encirclement of Jerusalem, a link to the site of the PLO.

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Whilst there’s actually no indication as to whether the piece is a polemic or considered straight news, if it is indeed the latter then McDonald fails to meet basic journalistic standards by not even attempting to present the Israeli view.  The result is a story in which 15 out of 15 paragraphs are sympathetic to the Palestinian position.   

He also gets quite sloppy when weaving into his narrative of Israeli oppression the topic of Jerusalem’s Light Rail system – which, parroting the Palestinian position, he characterizes as a ‘violation of international law’. McDonald’s attempt to contextualize the city’s new transportation system – which seems to run afoul of anti-Zionist sensibilities by audaciously serving both Arab and Jewish neighborhoods – includes this:  

Veolia, the French conglomerate that operates Luas in Dublin, and Alstom, came under pressure from the Palestinian Boycott Divestment and Sanctions campaign to withdraw from the Jerusalem consortium. Veolia did, but Alstom kept building 46 trams.

However, his claim that Veolia withdrew from the Jerusalem consortium appears to be flatly untrue.  As a fact sheet on Veolia’s website, and even posts on pro-BDS sites such as ‘Who Profits?’ (a project of Coalition of Women for Peace) make clear, Veolia has NOT ended its involvement with the consortium.

Additionally, while the company has indicated its wish to eventually sell its 5% share, McDonald’s passage misleadingly implies that Veolia’s calculations are based on the political pressure by BDS activists, a charge flatly denied by the company and contradicted by a recent report in Globes, which included the following:

Veolia Environement recently decided to abandon investment in transportation and to focus on its core businesses, especially environmental services, energy, and water.

The report provides further evidence that Veolia is still quite heavily invested in the Jewish state. 

Through Delkia Israel, Veolia Israel owns 20% of OPC Rotem, Israel’s first independent power producer which is coming on-line at this time (Israel Corporation (TASE: ILCO) owns the other 80%), and it operates Delek Group’s (TASE: DLEKG) power station in Ashkelon. Veolia Israel is a partner in the construction of four of Israel’s largest solar power plants in collaboration with France’s Électricité de France SA (Euronext: EDF)

Whilst McDonald’s broader narrative that BDS has been successful against Veolia is contradicted by the company’s continuing investment in Israel, his specific claim that they have in fact withdrawn from the (Light Rail) consortium is completely false, and we will be seeking a correction.

100 comments on “Irish Times report includes false claim about BDS impact on Jerusalem Light Rail

  1. You need to get a life. This entire website is ridiculous. Oh, you’re SUCH victims. Wah. Stop committing genocide and people will stop criticizing you.

    • Some proof of this “genocide” would be very welcome. And while you’re concocting theories about how those evil Jews “Zionists” are killing Palestinians, please find some way to account for the 400% growth of the Pal. Population since 1967.
      And no, “Hocus Pocus” doesn’t count as an explanation.

      • Veolia lost a lot of money following its involvement in Jerusalem’s lighrail, which links West Jerusalem (Israel) to illegal settlements in East Jerusalem (Palestine). I doubt they will ever want to work in Israel again.

    • CdV, the Palestinian population in the West Bank increased from 462,000 in 1948 to 2.38 million in 2005. In Gaza, the population increased from 82,000 in 1948 to 1.37 million during that same period.

      Meanwhile the Jewish population in the Middle East decreased from over 800,000 in 1948 to less than 5,000 today.

      Do you see how phenomenally absurd your “genocide” charge is?

      http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636#graph5

      http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/09/guardian-interviewee-casually-suggests-israel-is-attempting-to-ethnically-cleanse-palestinians/

      • If you include countries such as Tunisia, Libya, Pakistan and Morocca, the Jewish populations are still decreasing; notably the populations left behind benefit from families leaving their possessions behind. Not so far from the Polish court cases in the late 40s, during which Jewish refugees’ possessions, even places of abode, were never returned, and systematic attacks made it more difficult to stay.
        There is a point of no return, and as Jewish activists in Pakistan, even Tunisia, are saying (and no one is listening), it’s approaching.
        The Israel-Palestine debate is used as a screen onto which all Middle East topics are projected, to relocate blame. The “anti-Zionism” of Iran is perhaps the most insidious in the sense that Tehranian Jews are being systematically attacked, and silenced for being Jewish. Not, as their attackers paradoxically claim, for being ‘Zionists.’
        And yes, ‘anti-Zionism’ is a screen for ethnic cleansing; the Italians fell for it in the 30s with Paolo Orano’s publications.
        Paradoxically, the only state to speak for those ‘cleansed’, expelled, and marginalized, has been Israel. The international silence also speaks louder than words, but in a way which benefits the aggressors, not the victims.
        This is a response to Adam, who raised the topic. Probably a bit off topic, but close to my research interests. Thank you for breaking the silence.

        To others who may have an interest: http://www.jimena.org/oral-history-program/

      • “Meanwhile the Jewish population in the Middle East decreased from over 800,000 in 1948 to less than 5,000 today.”

        Adam Levick is LYING.

        There are more than six million Jews living in the Middle-East today.

        Or maybe he’s antisemitic and denies the existence of the State of Israel?

      • Levick is schizophrenic.

        On one hand, he encourages Jews leave their home countries and make Aliyah to Israel, a policy strongly supported by the State of Israel.

        On the other hand, once Jews leave their countries and move to Israel, which results in the Jewish community shrinking in these countries, he complains.

    • Genocide obviously means a hugely expanding population.
      God given right clearly doesn’t apply to prophets who had a dream of ascending to heaven on a winged horse.
      In short,Jewish claims:bad,Arab claims:good.

      respected news source –
      Oh please.Less than half the population polled trust the BBC;the Guardian is read by less than 200,000.

    • Under Israeli rule Falastinian life expectancy rose due to better healthcare and infrastructure. Infant mortality dropped. You call this genocide?

      If so Israelis are doing a very bad job. Perhaps they need to learn from the Turks how to do it properly? Would that please you?

  2. Of course we do need to look at what others say – so this is the consensus among international bodies –
    In a 2009 report, the United Nations Human Rights Council described the Jerusalem Light Rail as infrastructure servicing settlements.[58] The following year, the Human Rights Council condemned the decision to operate a tramway between West Jerusalem and Pisgat Ze’ev in violation of international law and relevant United Nations resolutions. The Council resolution was adopted with 46 votes in favor and 1 against (USA).[59]
    In the United Kingdom, an Early Day Motion was tabled in parliament in 2012 against the financing of illegal activity in the West Bank. After referring to the Jerusalem Light Rail, the motion called on the UK government to support EU legislation to ensure “that economic operators aiding and abetting the building, maintenance or servicing of illegal Israeli settlements be excluded from public contracts in the EU”.[60]

    Of course, to be fair, we have to point out that the Zionists think that Israel has the God given right to violate international law.

    • You are so right Ismail. Many Israeli actions are universally condemned by international bodies but every time the Guardian, the BBC or any other respected news source says as much this site complains that the flagrant violation in question is in fact a matter under dispute (for which read: “it is disputed by some obscure Zionist lawyer who specialises in demonstrating black to be white”).

      • “…some obscure Zionist lawyer…”
        I wonder, is the French court of appeals also [an] “obscure Zionist lawyer”?
        (By the way, I’d stick to your usual repertoire of exculpating terrorists. Your forays into humour are atrocious).

        A French court recently ruled that the Jerusalem light rail, which serves both the western and eastern parts of city, does not violate international law. Palestinian plaintiffs had sued three French companies who built the train line, arguing that Israel’s occupation of East Jerusalem was illegal.

        http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-ruling-on-jerusalems-light-rail-adds-nothing-new-scholars-say/

        • “…is the French court of appeals also [an] “obscure Zionist lawyer”?…”

          C101, It might be interesting to find out if sencar believes the French feels “guilt” over the Dreyfus affair and are inclined to be “biased” towards Israel…
          :)

      • sencar,
        I just read your latest, and leaves a question begging to be asked.
        So what the f___ are you doing here? What are you so worried about?
        “but every time the Guardian, the BBC or any other respected news source says…”
        What’s the matter, baby, can’t stand any criticism? hmm?
        Is that why you show up here to play “Don’t look at this, look at that?”

      • Let’s be realistic: the Guardian and BBC reach millions of readers. This website must reach 500 persons at max . Note how Levick has never published any data on the number of people who read his “stories”, just like he never, ever answered questions as to who funds this website (private US donors I guess?).

    • Ismail:

      “In a 2009 report, the United Nations Human Rights Council described the Jerusalem Light Rail as infrastructure servicing settlements.”

      I never thought I’d see the day you would call for the residents of Sha’afat and Beit Hanina settlers.
      Are you proposing they’d move to the State of greater Palestine aka Jordan?

      • The lightrail does NOT serve Beit Hanina, it carefully avoids it and goes straight to Pisgaat Zeev, an illegal settlement built in the Palestinian territory in contravention of international law.

        This is the reason why the French company that built the lightrail tried to disengage from the project so desperately: they lost several contracts in Europe because they were involved in a rail linking West Jerusalem (Israel) to an illegal settlement in East Jerusalem (Palestine).

      • Johnny, of course he’d rather Israel developed infrastructure to serve only Jews–then he could point to how Israel discriminates against Arabs.

      • We had rather Israel abide by international law and put an end to its occupation of the territory of the State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem.

        • But according to international law it would mean that those territories were taken from the State of Palestine. As far as I remember they were taken from the state of Jordan.

    • So, Ismail, you’re going to completely ignore everything I wrote to you last time? I thought you were seeking some clarification in how the Zionist views your plight, but apparently all of that thinking on my behalf in order to communicate with you in hopes that you might find reason enough to promote the peace process elicited not one bit of recognition from you.

      Remember that as you continue your pitiful pondering over your statelessness. You are what you reap and all the hate you seek.

  3. This is what the Veolia website saya about the Railways – So, once again this points to Veolia’s clear intent to get rid of its involvement in Jerusalem Railway. Of course this does not in any way suggest that Veolia thinks its operation in occupied territories is illegal or politically embarrassing. I must also point out that this indicates that Veolia is quite happy to be involved in proper Israel. This again, should not be read as admission that operating in occupied territories like the Light Railway Project is illegal.

    In 2010, Veolia Transport started negotiations with a view to transfer to the Israeli transport company Egged Holdings Limited its shareholding in the CityPass consortium, together with all its shares in the company responsible for running the JLRT.

    This operation was rejected by the Jerusalem public transportation authorities in January 2012, judging that Egged did not have, for now, the Veolia Transport’s expertise in terms of operating a light rail system. Nevertheless, Veolia Transport still intends to transfer this activity when all the necessary conditions are met.

    Veolia Environnement’s intention remains to continue to invest in the development of essential infrastructures in the environmental services and sustainable development sectors in Israel.

    • Ismail as usual you only posted a part of the story and not surprisingly it was the part that you tried to twist to suit your own agenda.
      This is from Wikipedia but you can check Veolia’s own website for confirmation of its plans to divest from ALL transport.
      “In December 2011, Veolia announced a €5bn divestment program over 2012-2013.[7] As part of this programme, Veolia would divest its participation in Veolia Transdev and exit the transport business altogether.”

      Do you think Ismail that when Veolia exited the transport business in Jersey, in 2012, it was because they couldn’t tell the difference between Jerusalem and Jersey?

  4. The conflict is believed to have killed at least 1,191–1,300 Lebanese people,[43][44][45][46] and 165 Israelis.[47] It severely damaged Lebanese civil infrastructure, and displaced approximately one million Lebanese[48] and 300,000–500,000 Israelis.[22][49][50]
    In the last 72 hours of the war, when the conflict already had been largely resolved by UN Security Council Resolution 1701, the Israeli armee flooded the region with clusterbombs.[51] After the ceasefire, parts of southern Lebanon remained uninhabitable due to Israeli un-exploded cluster bomblets.[52]. I must point out Israel denies this was a genocide, a massacre or a war crime because it was in response to continuous nagging from the Palestinians that they want to return to their homes.

    • With your permission, Jabal, let me remind you of a little tidbit about your country, and your military which would make any rational person balk at you.
      Also, would deny this was a genocide?(I’ll do your copy-and-paste from Wikipedia routine):

      The 1971 Bangladesh genocide refers to the bloodshed and human rights abuses in East Pakistan during the Bangladesh Liberation War. Massacres, killings, rape, arson and systematic elimination of religious minorities (particularly Hindus), political dissidents and the members of the liberation forces of Bangladesh were conducted by the Pakistan Army with support from local militias—the Razakars, Al-Badr and Al-Shams—formed by the radical Islamist Jamaat-e-Islami party.[1][2] The casualties estimated by different sources, numbered between 300,000 to 3 million. The war also witnessed ethnic violence between Bengalis and Urdu-speaking Biharis, including atrocities perpetrated by mobs and militias loyal to both sides in the war.[3]

      How can you live with yourself? You slaughtered 3 million people. Repent!
      (On a more serious note: can we do something about this sp.amming idiot? Every thread is now laced with his off-topic nonsense).

  5. sencar and ismail – a Jew hating piece of armchair warrior for “human rights” and a mentally challenged trolling clown – a perfect match.

  6. The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian and 13 Israeli deaths (4 from friendly fire).[52] According to the Shin Bet, after the conflict, there was a decrease in Palestinian rocket attacks.[53] In September 2009, a UN special mission, headed by the South African Justice Richard Goldstone, produced a controversial report accusing both Palestinian militants and the IDF of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, and recommended bringing those responsible to justice.[54] In January 2010, the Israeli government released a response criticizing the Goldstone Report and disputing its findings.[55] In 2011, Goldstone wrote that he no longer believed that Israel intentionally targeted civilians in Gaza.[56] The other authors of the report, Hina Jilani, Christine Chinkin and Desmond Travers, rejected Goldstone’s re-assessment.[57][58] However, the United Nations Human Rights Council did not agree and ordered Israel to conduct various repairs of the damages. On September 21, 2012, the United Nations Human Rights Council concluded that 75% of civilian homes destroyed in the attack were not rebuilt.[59]

    Of course, Israel points out that it was responding to Palestinians refusing to accept their expulsion from Palestine as permanent and irreversible. Israel considers itself perfectly justified in killing so many civilians.

    • “Of course, Israel points out that it was responding to Palestinians refusing to accept their expulsion from Palestine as permanent and irreversible.”
      Citation?
      I hope you’re not suggesting that they were en masse expelled, because that would be a lie.
      Likewise, I hope by using the words Palestinians and Palestine in the same sentence you’re not suggesting the origins of “Palestine” had anything whatsoever to do with those people. Again, a lie in service of another lie.

    • Not forgetting that Hamas admitting that at least 750 of the dead were their millitant was one of the reason Goldstone said that had he known in 2009 whay he knows today the report would have been different.

  7. Commentary101 difference between you and me is that I am actively organizing campaigns to ensure those culpable for crimes should be punished. Indeed, some have been convicted in Bangla Desh and facing death penalties.

    Are you part of the contingent organizing against House demolitions?

    • Not one Pakistani military criminal — read, you — has been either sentenced or prosecuted.
      See, this is what your country bought off in the Simla agreement; you bribed your victims:
      (Again your favourite Wikipedia-dumping technique)

      On July 30, 2009, the Minister of Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs of Bangladesh stated that no Pakistanis would be tried under the International Crimes (Tribunals) Act of 1973.[87] This decision has drawn criticism from international jurists, because it effectively gives immunity to the commanders of the Pakistani Army who are generally considered to be ultimately responsible for the majority of the crimes that were committed in 1971.[87]

      You’re “active organising” nothing. You’re trolling…. Can you see the difference?

    • Ismail:

      “I am actively organizing campaigns to ensure those culpable for crimes should be punished.”

      Then why are you campaigning for the release of the convicted Palestinian murderers?
      Why don’t you campaign for the Hamas govt to be toppled?
      Why do you support the PA govt who protects people like Dahlan and Bargouti?
      Why do you support the electronic intifada who does all of the above?

      You are a one sided biased liar.

  8. I’m surprised that you didn’t know about the Irish Times which makes the Guardian and Independent seem like raving Zionist publications. To the I.T. Jews are bad and Arabs are good and there’s no more to be said. The Irish Independent is far more fair and balanced and often gives Israel’s point of view.

  9. Commentary101 So, I take it you are not part of the contingent against House demolitions. Are you the one who operates the bulldozers that demolish houses? By the way I think the Simla agreement was a disgrace to humanity.

    • I am part of the “contingent” that exposes your lies about Israel and your visceral, zoological hatred thereof; the only thing I ‘demolish’ is your trolling. Your zealotry will break under the ‘bulldozer’ of Truth; of that, I can assure you.
      Secondly, I couldn’t care less about what you “think”: we’ve already established that you in fact, don’t think at all. That’s your problem.
      You killed 3 million people, and you’re still getting away with it. In fact, you’ve been so impune, that the UN “Human Rights” council you cite so frequently, gave YOU(Pakistan) — a warmongering, mass-murdering nation, with several unresolved barbaric conflicts with India, and rife discrimination against non-Muslims — a seat on its “prestigious” roster.
      These are the “human rights” you defend — the right to murder Bangladeshis. The only “demolitions” you care about are of the anti-Hindu variety.
      Even today we’ve seen your savage Islamist friends bomb 11 people, including children, in Karachi.
      When are you going to martyr yourself Jabal, is the question?
      Don’t you want your “hoor in Jannah”?

  10. So where is the rebuttals. I have seen accusations without foundation.

    Let us have your rebuttal for a murderous and illegal mounting of ships in the international waters – of course, to be fair, Israel claims God has given them the right to do whatever it wants.

    On 31 May 2010, Israeli Shayetet 13 naval commandos boarded the ships from speedboats[1] and helicopters in order to force the ships to the Israeli port of Ashdod for inspection. On the Turkish ship MV Mavi Marmara, the Israeli Navy faced resistance from about 40 of the 590 IHH activists – described in an Israeli report as a separate “hardcore group”[2] – who were armed with iron bars and knives.[3] During the struggle, nine activists were killed including eight Turkish nationals and one Turkish American, and many were wounded. All activist casualties were caused by gunshots, some of them at point blank range or from behind. Ten of the commandos were also wounded, one of them seriously.[3][4] The five other ships in the flotilla employed passive resistance, which was suppressed without major incident. The ships were towed to Israel, where all passengers were detained and deported.
    The raid drew widespread condemnation internationally and resulted in a deterioration of Israel-Turkey relations. Israel consequently eased its blockade on the Gaza Strip, all activists were freed, and the ships returned. In September 2011, a United Nations report, after analysis of both Turkey and Israeli national investigations, concluded that the Israeli blockade was legal, but that Israel army used excessive force in this incident by firing stun and smoke grenades from the Israeli army’s speed boats and helicopters before boarding into flotilla and conducted live fire rounds from the helicopters before or after boarding, though the flotilla was still in international waters. The report also mentioned “serious questions about the conduct, true nature and objectives of the flotilla organizers, particularly IHH.”[5]
    The government of Israel alleged that the flotilla was organized as a provocation or media stunt,[text 1] and that a hard core of about 40 IHH activists were prepared from the beginning for a violent confrontation.[6] The New York Times, in an editorial, asserted that “At least some of the activists on the lead ship, the Mavi Marmara, were seeking a confrontation – and got one.”[7]
    On 22 March 2013, in a half-hour telephone exchange between Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the former apologized on behalf of his nation

    • So you can’t read, can you?

      In September 2011, a United Nations report, after analysis of both Turkey and Israeli national investigations, concluded that the Israeli blockade was legal

      Legal. Do you understand what that means? Take the opposite of “Pakistan”, and find out.
      Also this:

      The Israeli military said that in addition to medical aid and construction materials, they found knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks, and night vision goggles aboard the Mavi Marmara.[150] A statement released by Foreign Affairs Minister Avigdor Lieberman claimed that violence against the soldiers was pre-planned, and that “light weaponry” was found on the ships, including pistols that had been seized from IDF commandos. Israel stated that the naval forces “found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces.”[151][152] IDF photos displayed daggers, kitchen and pocket knives, metal and wooden poles, flares, wrenches and slingshots with marble projectiles said to have been used against the soldiers.[text 9][153] The activists were said to have also lobbed stun grenades at IDF soldiers, and the IDF furnished video reflecting this.

      You send terrorists, and you get hurt. Moral of this story: Don’t violate a legal, naval enclosure.
      Now how about those “Hoor in Jannah”? You’re late for ‘paradise’, Jabal…

    • Ismail:

      “of course, to be fair, Israel claims God has given them the right to do whatever it wants.”

      Quote please!
      Liar.

      “On 22 March 2013, in a half-hour telephone exchange between Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the former apologized on behalf of his nation.”

      A mistake that should have never happened. He was probably pushed to apologised by the US current weak regime.
      Erdogan will soon end like Morsi. Inshalla!

    • IbA:
      Israel claims God has given them the right to do whatever it wants

      You must know this is complete fiction – so why bother posting it?

  11. I do not see anywhere any international body, apart from the Israeli government has said that the killings on the Mavi Marmara were legal and now that the Prime Minister has apologized the issue of the legality of the killings is decided. The occupation of Palestine is illegal and that also makes the blockade of Gaza illegal.. Of course, to be fair, Israel still argues that Palestine is not under occupation and the blockade of Gaza is legal.

    • Did you not see this?!

      In September 2011, a United Nations report, after analysis of both Turkey and Israeli national investigations, concluded that the Israeli blockade was legal.

      And this:

      “Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza…The naval blockade was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.”[280]

      Or this:

      The commission questioned the motivations of the Flotilla stating that “There exist serious questions about the conduct, true nature and objectives of the flotilla organizers, particularly IHH”.[279] The commission recognized that the IDF were met with “organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers” upon boarding the vessel and therefore force was necessary for purposes of self-defense.[280]

      The deaths were the product of your brutal assault on the soldiers. If you had not attempted to kill them, they would not have fired back. You know Jabal(but of course, you don’t) the law of “Cause and effect”.

      • The UN report clearly states that Israel’s use of force was EXCESSIVE.

        Eight Turkish citizens and one US citizen were killed by Israeli commandos in full army gear, escorted by war helicopters, who assaulted civilians aboard the flottila as it sailed in international waters.

  12. You do know it was the IDF that attacked the Mavi Marmara – None of the IDF ships were attacked or mounted by the Turks or anybody else.

    And
    All activist casualties were caused by gunshots, some of them at point blank range or from behind.

    And now that the Israeli Prime Minister has apologized reflects the real truth – Stop spinning – it does not really work. I wonder who you are going to convince that the deaths on the Mavi Marmara was as a result of the brutal assault on the IDF soldiers in their gunship helicopters – Of course Israel was involved in a pre-preemptive defense which is only another word for attacking defenseless peoples.

    • A UN commission reported that Israel was justified in using self-defence.
      Jabal’s(aka Ismail) response? Lie, and then lie some more.
      Of course, Jabal is also a Pakistani war-criminal and shill, so his prevarications needn’t surprise anyone.

      • “Jabal’s(aka Ismail) response? Lie, and then lie some more.”

        Commentary, you can’t get through to a bigot, but, as usual, you did a wonderful job of exposing him. I’ll sleep well tonight knowing you’re on our side.

        • Exactly.

          I’m also not sure how he figures that Netanyahu’s apology (arm-twisted out of him by Obama in return for the assurance that Turkey would drop the law suits against the soldiers–on which assurance Turkey has reneged) is acknowledgement that the blockade is illegal.

          (It does, however, confirm my opinion that good-will gestures are at best useless and more often counter-productive.)

          • The current Turkish govt spits on Israel and its own Turkish Seculer citizens and expects them to say it’s rain.
            Ismail must think it’s all going to plan and soon he’ll have a jubilation in the new Khalifat.

            Of course, he is mistaken because even if an Uma will appear, the blood shed will continue as is evident in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, etc, etc…

  13. Commentrary101 Oh well this is a real rebuttal – I bow to your divine knowledge – and bow out of this discussion. Mind you divine knowledge is not admissible in the court of law. How could it be self-defense nobody attacked you.

    • “Mind you divine knowledge is not admissible in the court of law.”

      In that case, Jabal, you and your cohorts are really up the creek without a paddle.

  14. Pingback: The Tripod: CAMERA Links in Three Languages – August 7th edition | BBC Watch

  15. The Diane Shame Group of aliases
    like NS-Ismail/Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
    Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.
    Despite the changing aliases one thing never changes, the antisemitic propaganda of hate in every of his/her posts.

  16. cba no matter how the apology was obtained, if he has not taken back his apology, it remains the admission of guilt. He can come out and say I denounce my apology because it was obtained under duress.

    He cannot have it both ways. Apologize and say I have done nothing wrong to be sorry for.

    • Apologies are not always an admission of guilt, but sometimes just an expression of regret. Sometimes they’re given (by the bigger person) to soothe feelings and smooth over relationships.
      Contrast this with the terrorists and their companions aboard the Mavi Marmara, i.e., would be murderers of Jews and proud of there racism and savagery.

  17. Jeff Are you suggesting that Israel is willing to accept the Right of Return for the Palestinian refugees? If so, I think it is great news. Is this being agreed as part of the latest peace talks? I thought the contents of the talks are still private. How did you obtain this information? Anyway, I now feel positive that a major stubmling block to peace has now been decided.

    Thanks for the info.

    • Israel already said they can return to the other part of the 20% of Palestine which was initially promissed to the Jews.
      AKA, WB and Gaza.
      They can come to the WB and Gaza tomorrow.
      But wait, the PA and Hamas refuse this.
      The refugees do not want to come back to Palestine.
      They want to come back to Israel, but do not want to live in a Jewish state.
      mmmm…

    • Let me get this straight. Not only do you want your own Palestinian state, but you also are demanding that Palestinians, who have never lived in Israel, get to return to the homes their grandparents claimed they lived? Because a state isn’t good enough for you, on top of that what you are seeking is a total dismantling of the current Israeli state? The one that beat your parents, your grandparents, and probably your great grandparents, in wars that were waged specifically to destroy Israel?

      Thank you, Toots, for exposing yourself not just a hack huckster, or as a fraudulent peace seeker, but also as a some truly demented dingbat who has no respect for others unless those others are trashing people you hate on a personal (not logical) level.

      From me to you, I hope if’s a long, long time before you find the happiness you seek. Maybe in 3 more lifetimes.

    • “Jeff Are you suggesting that Israel is willing to accept the Right of Return for the Palestinian refugees? If so, I think it is great news.”
      (Not) sorry to disappoint you, but no, the descendants of people who didn’t call themselves Palestinians and fled during their annihilationist war against Israel and the Jews can’t go “back” to a country called Israel no matter how much they want to call it Palestine, because it’s not. The Arabs have 99% of the land in the M.E., they can’t have the remaining 1%., because it’s not theirs. There’s neither a compelling reason for Israel to absorb millions of Arabs nor a compelling reason for those Arabs to live live in Israel, and it’s certainly not going to solve any of their (read “your”) deep seeded problems which go far, far deeper than the existence of a predominantly jewish state. It’s past time to pull the plug on UNRWA and the Arab League’s refugee hoax. If you can’t settle for a Jewish State, then go twist in the wind, asshole.

  18. The change from NSIsmail to Rana won`t help you, member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases.

  19. Itsik you can only return to where you come from – you can go to Mars but not return to it unless you come from Mars. Besides, Jeff has said they can return so I assume his command of English is better than yours and return does mean going back where you come from and not going somewhere else.

  20. The change from NSIsmail to Rana won`t help you, member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases like Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
    Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.
    Despite the changing aliases one thing never changes, the antisemitic propaganda of hate in every of his/her posts.

  21. Itsik you are really not very competent in English – I think you mean mandated. I am sure the owners never mandated anybody and they want to return to their homes and not to Mars. Colonizers cannot claim a mandate over other peoples lands.

    • Who’s land was it then? What was it’s currency?
      Just in case you wondered, the owners sold it to the Jews.
      Back in biblical times and during the Ottoman time.

    • Thanks for correcting my typo.
      How about correcting your typos?
      You seem to mispelled your name. A few letters wrong there.

    • “Itsik you are really not very competent in English”

      ‘rana mirza’ before you denigrate anyone’s competence in the English language you should examine your own posts’ for poor grammar and punctuation. The lack of punctuation and very poor grammar is clearly an indication of your own lack of competence in the English language.
      ‘Kettle calling the pot black’ is the politest phrase that comes to mind.

  22. And now from the Mayor of Upper Nazareth

    “The racist Theodor Herzl wrote “Der Judenstaat” (“The Jewish State,” not “The State of All Its Citizens”). Lord Balfour recommended the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people. David Ben-Gurion, Chaim Arlosoroff, Moshe Sharett and other racists established the Jewish Agency, and the racist UN decided to establish a Jewish state — in other words, a state for Jews. The racist Ben-Gurion announced the establishment of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, and during the War of Independence even made sure to bring in hundreds of thousands of Jews and drive out hundreds of thousands of Arabs who had been living here — all to enable it to be founded with the desired racist character.
    Since then, racially pure kibbutzim without a single Arab member and an army that protects a certain racial strain have been established, as have political parties that proudly bear racist names such as “Habayit Hayehudi” — “the Jewish home.” Even our racist national anthem ignores the existence of the Arab minority — in other words, the people Ben-Gurion did not manage to expel in the 1948 war. If not for all that “racism,” it’s doubtful we could live here, and doubtful that we could live at all. “

    • Adam, I doubt that such antisemitic propaganda is part of free speech, this belongs to the sites of Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada, vicious antisemitc sites.

    • Since the Palestinian Authority was established it has systematically indoctrinated young and old to hate Israelis and Jews. Using media, education, and cultural structures that it controls, the PA has actively promoted religious hatred, demonization, conspiracy libels, etc. These are packaged to present Israelis and Jews as endangering Palestinians, Arabs, and all humanity. This ongoing campaign has so successfully instilled hatred that fighting, murder and even suicide terror against Israelis and Jews are seen by the majority of Palestinians as justified self-defense and as Allah’s will.

      http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=783

    • rana is engaging here in a type of racial incitement pioneered by his hero Herr Hitler, turning his racism against Jews into a racism perpetrated by Jews. Perpetrators of this type of inversion usually use it on the unsuspecting, but here rana is using it as a windup merchant, i.e., simply to incite. Time to ban?

  23. Itsik One thing everybody knows, except the mayor of Upper Nazareth and you, is that it did not belong to Balfour – He may have sold it to you but you have received stolen goods and that in anybody’s book is a crime

    • Rana: “..you have received stolen goods and that in anybody’s book is a crime”.

      No it is not.
      Nowhere it is.
      It is a crime to sell or handle stolen goods.
      Buying stolen goods is not a crime.
      You seem to know for a fact the goods were stolen. Were you by chance the thief?

  24. Pingback: The Tripod: CAMERA Links in Three Languages | In Focus

  25. The change from NSIsmail to Antisemite Rana won`t help you, member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases like Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
    Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.
    Always the same drek is repeated, in almost every thread, the hate inciting rpopaganda of a terror buddy.

  26. Here are statutes on receiving stolen goods – Perhaps In Israel the rule does not apply – but elsewhere it does.

    Receiving stolen property is defined by statute in most states. Generally it consists of four elements: (1) the property must be received; (2) it must have been previously stolen; (3) the person receiving the property must know it was stolen; and (4) the receiver must intend to deprive the owner of his or her property.

    A person receives stolen property by acquiring or taking manual possession of it. Physical possession, however, is not always required. Under some statutes, it is sufficient if the accused has exercised control over the property. For example, a statute may declare that paying for the property constitutes control, regardless of whether the accused has handled it.

    In many jurisdictions a belief that the property is stolen satisfies the knowledge element. It has been held that a mere suspicion does not constitute knowledge. Some statutes provide that a person has knowledge if he knows, or has reason to know, that goods are stolen. Another test is whether a reasonable person would suspect that the property was stolen. Knowledge is commonly proved by the circumstances surrounding the receipt of the property. For example, unexplained possession of goods that were recently stolen raises a presumption that the possessor received them illegally.

  27. The change from NSIsmail to Antisemite Rana won`t help you, member of the Diane Shame Group of aliases like Mondoweiss Chris/Isac/ liar/Peter Ounce/Islamabadi/diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/Jabal aka
    Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek.
    Adam, I doubt that such antisemitic propaganda is part of free speech, this belongs to the sites of Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada, vicious antisemitc sites.

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