Glenn Greenwald’s column at ‘CiF': A safe space for antisemitic commenters?


A guest post by AKUS

Antisemitic commenters at the Guardian’s ‘Comment is Free’ have discovered that Glenn Greenwald’s columns provide a useful forum in which to post racist commentary below the line – many of which have not been deleted by CiF moderators. 

In a post by Greenwald on April 7, Bradley Manning is off-limits at SF Gay Pride parade, but corporate sleaze is embraced, which didn’t mention Jews or Israel, this comment popped up in response to another commenter who mentioned the widely used term “Pallywood” to describe the faked and discredited film clips and photographs which Palestinians have sometimes distributed:

one

This opened the doors to a bit of antisemitic jollity by “bilejones” and others based on the well-known antisemitic meme that Jews control Hollywood.

On most ‘CiF’ threads the following comments would have been deleted by moderators, but thanks to Greenwald’s unique policy regarding comment moderation, they remain in all their smart-alecky racism. Notice that the pretense that “Israelis” or “Zionists” are the people opposed to Palestinians immediately gives way to the underlying animosity towards Jews usually hidden by those terms in the following pejorative exchanges:

one

Now the Pavlovian dogs had been let loose, and even MonaHol may have realized they had gone too far – or, perhaps, was just being a little coy:

newThe approval of such comments make you wonder how long a comment that proposed characterizing movies which are made by African–Americans by using a variation of the ‘n-word’ would be allowed to stay up.  Would the commenter engaging in such shamefully racist “wordplay” still be permitted to post at the Guardian? 

Lest the gentle reader think these are isolated examples, here is another recent set.

In another column by Greenwald, ‘The same motive for anti-US ‘terrorism’ is cited over and over, he mentioned the excuse given by some recent high profile Muslim terrorists – such as the Fort Hood shooter and the ‘Underwear Bomber’ - that they were attacking America due, in part, to its support of Israel.  A commenter then drags in Judaism as a counterbalance to criticism of Islam, and MonaHol offers to post selections from the Talmud in defense of Islam:

one

The  comment by “westeastnorth” was in response to several well-known invented citations purporting to come from the Talmud provided on antisemitic websites that MonaHol repeats here:

one

Given that someone like MonaHol likely cannot read Hebrew, Aramaic, or Rashi script, and it takes a lifetime of study in the original languages to learn and understand the Talmud, the question must be asked: “From where does she get her information”?

one

The answer is that that she gleans the citations from the numerous antisemitic websites that have trolled selectively through an English version and then circulate the very citations MonaHol presents, without the context of rabbinic disputation. Only an obsessive anti-Semite would in turn troll through such sites to find them, and only an ignoramus would present them as representing the full range of Jewish thought on those subjects. Googling “Talmud” and any of the so-called Talmudic references MonaHol quoted will give you dozens if not hundreds of such sites.

It is the equivalent of presenting a list of straw man legal arguments that have been given to students at law school to argue over as representing exact examples of a country’s laws

Refutations can be found at this site, which painstakingly fisks the many fabrications about the Talmud that circulate on the internet, listing them one antisemitic “Claim” at a time, including the ones that MonaHol uses. The antisemitic websites provided as sources have mostly been taken down since this website was set up, but Stormfront (one of the purveyors of such gross distortions of Judaism) is still active.

I have edited the lengthy list of refutations down to the claims that MonaHol made, and further reduced the number of responses to each claim for the sake of (relative) brevity:

CLAIM (23) Jews May Steal from Non-Jews Baba Mezia 24a. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile (“heathen”) it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

RESPONSE (1)
Found objects do not have to be returned when they are lost under circumstances that make the owner impossible to identify. This also applies to objects lost by Jews in crowded areas — as you would know had you actually read the passage in question instead of pasting it in from a National Socialist website.

CLAIM (25) Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.

RESPONSE (2)
Misquote. That’s a theoretical point that is being raised and subsequently rejected. Naturally, [the quote] “forgets” to mention the latter part.

CLAIM (27) Jews May Lie to Non-Jews Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies (“subterfuges”) to circumvent a Gentile.

RESPONSE (1)
This is one of the most obvious pieces of out-of-context blather it has ever been my pleasure to refute. The context is evading a thief. Yes, you are permitted to lie to a robber — in particular a crooked tax collector.

Further down the same page, it not only says that robbing gentiles is prohibited, it even discusses the derivation of the prohibition.

Here, we have gone beyond going out of context and have entered the realm of deliberate falsification.

RESPONSE (2)
Refers to whether a Jew may deceive a Roman tax collector, IIRC (note that Romans were the occupying force at that time, literally playing the role of the Sheriff of Nottingham).
From Usenet message

RESPONSE (3)
The passage discusses robbers (such as tax collectors who acted beyond their legal authority) who have stolen property. The question that arises is whether it is permitted to use subterfuge to circumvent their thievery. In a long legal discussion, the entire thrust of which is that any form of stealing from heathens is forbidden, the following statement is brought forward for consideration: “we use subterfuges to circumvent him [a heathen; this is one opinion] … but Rabbi Akiva said that we should not attempt to circumvent him on account of the sanctification of the Name”. The Talmud continues and notes that Rabbi Akiva forbids subterfuges not only on account of desecration of G-d’s name, but also because theft from a non-Jew is absolutely forbidden by biblical law. The Talmud continues to explain that even the opinion which is rejected does not condone outright theft which is absolutely forbidden according to all opinions.

The Talmudic passage here is a well-known one which makes the point that the “law of the land is the law”, that is, the civil and commercial law of the nations in which Jews reside is binding on them. 

Obsessive anti-Semites like “bilejones”, “MonaHol”, “axenicely” and others congregate under Greenwald’s columns – and are left there to create an environment which extremist sites might envy.

The Guardian has banned supporters of Israel for far less, and one would think that such name-calling by “bilejones” and “axenicely” would elicit corrective action by their team of professional moderators – which begs serious questions about the Guardian and the extent of their commitment to maintaining high ‘community standards‘. 

Silence by ‘CiF’ moderators in the face of such hate speaks volumes.  

48 comments on “Glenn Greenwald’s column at ‘CiF': A safe space for antisemitic commenters?

  1. Disgusting _itch! I once had a similar exchange with someone, I believe on IMDb, who made garbage statements that the Talmud states that you may steal from gentiles, etc.

    That individual got his disinformation from missionislam and revisionisthistory. I pointed him to the Chabad site which showed those claims to be false. I also encouraged him to go to Chabad himself and talk to them directly. He said he would, but I can’t verify.

  2. I think it is disgusting how some people twist ancient text to demonize religions and peoples faiths. In reality language changes enormously over centuries. Very few people if any fully understand the ancient text. They definitely lack context and therefore understanding. We should certainly discuss current conflicts thoroughly and rationally. However, the demonizing peoples faiths does not serve any purpose and makes resolution of conflict even more difficult.

  3. It is quite obvious that Jews and Israel are facing a barrage of anti-Semitism, outright lies and mis-information on a scale, and on so many fronts, not seen since the Nazi era. The Guardian could quite easily be the daily bulletin of Orwell’s Ministry of Truth. Thanks to Cifwatch and contributors like AKUS, Richard Millett, etc., the Guardian (and occasionally the Independent too) are now aware that they are being monitored, but in my opinion the Guardian is openly becoming more, not less, hostile to Jews.

    The first time I ever looked at CiF, about the time it emerged, I simply couldn’t believe my eyes that a (once) great liberal paper would attract, let alone allow, the BTL comments on ME threads that I read there. Some of these seemed to me to be as bad, and occasionally worse, than anything I had seen in pre-internet days in the publications I sometimes saw of the fascist right,

    Although I have never been expelled from CiF and have posted comments over a long period (around ten years) in defense of Israel and opposing untrue or selective reporting of ‘enemy’ aims, antics and intentions, I have had a number of posts I feel were unjustly deleted, but at least they weren’t either racist or untrue. Yet the posts above quoted by AKUS, could not possibly be acceptable to any self-respecting newspaper and what kind of journalist would want readers like MonaHol or axenicely to leave their BTL anti-Jewish pornography for all to read and remain unmoderated?

    In yesterday’s Mail on Sunday, sister paper of the London Daily Mail, the columnist Peter Hitchens, brother of the late Christopher Hitchens, wrote (available on-line at dailymail.co.uk) that he believes Britain will become an Islamic country in the future. I entirely agree with him and when it happens the Guardian will have played an important role in preparing the achievement of this future. When it comes the Guardian’s readers will discover the meaning of ‘Darkness at Noon’.

    • Yet the posts above quoted by AKUS, could not possibly be acceptable to any self-respecting newspaper

      But the Guardian is no longer a ‘self-respecting newspaper’. It is a propaganda rag for the radical extreme left sprinkled with some news items. It promotes delusional opinions devoid of any connection to reality. It is plainly hypocritical and ‘doesn’t see’ occurrences which don’t sit will with it’s peverted, inverted and demented view of life on this planet and what is best for humanity.

      • The Guardian “is a propaganda rag for the radical extreme left sprinkled with some news items”.

        The current homepage makes a nonsense of your ridiculous statement.

    • the Guardian is openly becoming more, not less, hostile to Jews.

      What a load of bollocks.

      .. Britain will become an Islamic country in the future. I entirely agree with him and when it happens the Guardian will have played an important role in preparing the achievement of this future.

      More delusional nonsense.

      When it comes the Guardian’s readers will discover the meaning of ‘Darkness at Noon’.

      Wow. Imagine if someone where to imagine a country or place becoming majority Jewish – and then calling that future “Darkness at Noon” (or similar literary reference).

      Talk about bigotry – and of course it gets the usual thumbs here at CiFWatch!

      • Sure, that’s because countries with Muslim majorities are such beacons of liberal democracy. This is a link to Freedom House which rates level of freedom by country. Can you find a single Muslim country that rates as “free.” http://www.freedomhouse.org/

  4. My guess is that if Judaism were scrutinized half as much as Islam people would be much better educated and quite a bit less anti-Semitic.

  5. The Guardian gets viler by the day. They won’t publish anything anti-Muslim because they know they would unleash #Muslimrage. But non-violent Jews are fair game.

    Maybe that ought to change? The 43 group succeeded against Mosley’s fascists. I’m sure the Guardian would cave in if similar physical pressure were applied.

  6. The posts above penned by MonaHol are beautiful textbook examples of the amazing ignorance and blind hate of the Guardian/Greenwald kind of anti-Semites. Her falsified Talmud-quotes copied from neo-Nazi sources are very spectacular but looking at any other crap in her posts will demonstrate her utter and total ignorance of Israel, Jews and Judaism.

    I had Jewish clients, Orthodox ones, back in the 90s in consultation with their rabbi to lie to gentiles with whom they were in a dispute.
    Obviously this was the first occurrence in the whole history of humankind of lying in a dispute and its perpetrators naturally were Zionists Jews – you know the Orthodox variety. But I’m sure Mona never would consult with her guru before lying – she must be independent enough to decide alone.

    Do a majority of Israeli Jews condemn these sorts of religious teachings?
    It would be pretty difficult to condemn a non-existent commandment but obviously Mona hasn’t a clue about the fact that the huge majority of Israeli Jews are either secular or don’t belong to the ultra-orthodox version of Judaism. Her demand of the condemnation of a non-existent religious teaching by people who weren’t give a rusty nail about it if it existed at all is pretty telling.

    And to be sure, it is ultra-Orthodox in Israel who are the settlers these days; they adhere, from what I understand, to all this garbage about how it is just fine to behave immorally with non-Jews.

    As everyone equipped with the minimal knowledge about Israel knows, the vast majority of Israelis living beyond the green-line are not ultra-Orthodox Jews. But why should facts disturb the incoherent ramblings of a Jew-hater??

    There is a whole story to be written about that.
    I can sum of this whole story of you Mona somehow like this:
    If your brains were dynamite there wouldn’t be enough to blown you wig off.
    What you would understand with your subzero IQ Mona could be put inside a quark, even there would be enough space for some of additional pieces of wisdom blabbered by your beloved comrade in narcissistic psychopathia – Glenn Greenwald.

    • If your brains were dynamite there wouldn’t be enough to blown you wig off
      I am soooooooooo stealing that! I can think of many a person to whom it applies…

      • I can give you another one. I had a friend, now passed away, whose Scottish father used to say, “If brains were black powder he couldn’t blow his own nose!”

  7. AKUS In the headline there is a typo.
    Glenn Greenwald’s column at ‘CiF’: A safe space for antisemitic commenters?
    At the end the question mark is obviously redundant. Why shouldn’t be the comment pages of an anti-semite website a safe space for Jew-haters and their bile?

  8. Don’t care what the Talmud or any other Jewish scripture says. Not one jot. I’ll worry about it when a bunch of wide eyed Rabbis start spouting hate at me and my family and the day random Jews (who until then were “really nice guys”) start blowing themselves and a score of innocent bystanders up on the streets on my country shouting death slogans.

    Until then Mona Holland and BBC/Guardian can go to hell.

    • Don’t care what the Talmud or any other Jewish scripture says. Not one jot.

      I’ve just re-read this part of my comment and realise that it may sound insensitive so some. No offense intended.

  9. Jane Salam/Shalom – Peace to all the children of Abraham –
    About 20 Jewish women and children entered an abandoned home on the outskirts of Admot Yishai neighborhood in Hevron Wednesday, with the intent of making it inhabitable. One of the women told Israel National News Wednesday that the home was used this morning by Arab terrorists, who cut barbed wire and crawled into a porch to observe Admot Yishai. A Jewish girl who saw them began shouting and throwing rocks, and the Arabs ran away.

    The woman said that the intention is to turn the home into a children’s playroom. “We do not know who the home belongs to and we do not care,” she said. “It has been abandoned for more than 10 years.”

    Army and police are on the scene. The Civil Administration is reportedly awaiting word on the ownership status of the home before it decides what to do.

  10. Michael – The salient feature of the event where a young girl, just armed with a stone was able to frighten Arab terrorists from their house. Must speak volumes about the terrorist do you not think?

  11. Yes, very likely Michael these Arab brutes f in terrorists hiding behind a skirt in a hijab –

    That is what the real manly terrorists do –

    Struk argued that there is a contradiction between the stringent rules of engagement that the IDF enforces with settlers and the more lenient ones that apply within the Green Line. She noted that she had spoken to settlers who were prevented from scaring off Palestinians who were damaging their property, because they were not permitted to open fire unless it was in self-defense.

    “When I spoke to the chief military prosecutor and asked him why he decided to limit the ability of West Bank residents to respond with live fire despite the fact that it is permitted by law, he responded that it is the right of the military commander [in the West Bank] to limit what the law permits,” she said.

    Struk’s proposal was met with fierce opposition from left-wing politicians.

    “The settlers need the Dromi Law in order to shoot at Palestinians? They are coping well without it,” MK Issawi Farij (Meretz) retorted.

    MK Michal Rozin (Meretz) accused Struck of “trying to legislate the Wild West existing in the occupied territories.”

    “As if the fact that the settlers reside on lands that aren’t their own weren’t enough, she now wants them to be able to shoot Palestinians legally,” Rozin said.

    • I don’t think that you’re ashley george, but I think that you may be uninformed about Israeli politics. I encourage you not to take what leftist politicians say as representative of the country. Israeli leftists make American liberals look like staunch Reaganites.

  12. Michael are you saying there is no such thing as the Dromi Law and these bastard left wingers have invented another of their lies to demonize the Zionist. In which I beg your forgiveness. Salam/Shalom

    I was quoting from the Times of Israel – I did not realize it’s antisemitic connections

  13. I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying Times of Israel is lying and there is no such law called the Dromi Law. Or are you saying that Times of Israel does not represent Israel. Which is obvious as Times is a Newspaper and not an representational institute. If you are saying even the Times of Israel is not to be trusted what should be our source of information?

    • I really haven’t read the Times of Israel very much, however I don’t see where I made any indication of their trustworthiness. If we’re talking about different things then I do apologize.

    • Only one question Burgess.
      What is the Dromi Law has to do with the subject of this article?
      Until you won’t be able to supply a reasonable answer I would suggest to others who want to add anything to the subject of the anti-semitic content tolerated on Glenn Greenwald’s blog simply to ignore your crap.

  14. Times of Israel reported on the Dromi Law that gives impunity to those who shoot someone who they think is a burglar. Has the Times of Israel got this wrong – and there is no such law. That is all I want to know. The shooting does not have to be in self defense according to the law. This can have very serious repercussions where owner ship of properties are very much contested particularly in the West Bank. The law can be discriminatory against the Palestinians. You suggested one should not believe everything one reads. That might be the case generally. The question is there such a law or not?

    • Now, it’s pretty clear what’s going on here and I withdraw my apology.
      1. Peter is right. This has nothing to do with the article. You’ve come here with an ax to grind against Israel.
      2. The Uri Dromi laws have been passed, but it’s typical for libero-fascists to try to spin this out of context. In case you’re unaware, there are “people” in Israel who try to commit terrorism. Just a few years ago, almost an entire family, including most of the children, an infant among them, was murdered in their beds with their throats slit, yes including the infant. That is the reason behind the Dromi laws.
      3. If you claim that this is discriminatory against Palestinians then you admit that they are the ones who commit such heinous acts, while Jews do not.

  15. 1. The “settlers” live in Judea and Samaria because that is where their homes are. That is also part of the historical land of Israel.
    2. They are called “settlers” because that is a politically-charged buzzword that libero-fascists like to use in order to delegitimize Israel’s claim to the land.
    3. You have exposed yourself for what you are. I, unfortunately, am a bad judge of character and I didn’t recognize yours for what it is, unlike others on this board. You know nothing of Zionism except what you feed on at the trough with the rest of the libero-fascist herd.
    4. Since you do not believe that Jews are entitled to self-determination, you have exposed yourself as the racist.

  16. I am getting extremely vexed with the same ridiculous claims being rehashed over, and over again, by a troll, masquerading(out of his own deep inadequacy) under Anglo-Saxon names(isn’t that so, Jabal Karim)?
    So let’s hear it, Mr. Pakistani (clockwork) Orange: When did “they” pass a law permitting the killing(I assume that’s what you meant) — and more so, with impunity — of Palestinians?
    Tell us, are Burgess’ works available in Urdu? If so, Do his clearly anti-governmental oeuvres chime with the Islamic, quasi-dictatorial regime that is Pakistan?

  17. I’d like to suggest that commenters limit their comments to the topic of the Guardian’s anti-Semitism, and leave the troll to stew in his own anti-Semitic hatred.

  18. That’s right. Shai Dromi is really telepathic and was able to read the minds of that gang that broke into his home that they weren’t going to commit Fogel-style murders on him, his wife, and children. Right. Got it!

  19. Ha! You idiot, do you even read what you copy and paste?!
    Where does it say that the law permits, as you claimed, the killing of Palestinians, much more so with impunity?!
    Or are you now suggesting that all Palestinians are burglars & thieves?, or that perhaps, only Palestinians are burglars?
    Dear oh Dear Jabal, you sound terribly racist!
    Also, congratulations on finally dropping the “Burgess” act. Are you finally free from the shackles of deep inferiority instilled in you by living in the fascist regime of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, now?

  20. Pingback: Je suppose que je vais reinventer la roue quand elle correspond a black jack anime. - Trang 232

Comments are closed.