Examining a rumor about Israel started by ‘Women of the Wall’ and repeated by the Guardian


Harriet Sherwood’s Feb. 17 report in the Guardian, ‘Sarah Silverman tweet puts women’s Western Wall protest in global spotlight‘, focused on a protest by an organization called ‘Women of the Wall’ against restrictions imposed on women who pray at the Kotel in Jerusalem – an act of civil disobedience last Monday undertaken by a group which included Rabbi Susan Silverman (comedian Sarah Silverman’s sister).

While such protests aren’t uncommon, interest in the story (as the Guardian title suggested) intensified after Sarah Silverman tweeted support for her sister, who was one of ten women briefly detained by police for violating prayer customs.

While issues regarding such gender-based restrictions naturally resonate with many Israelis who seek to loosen Haredi (Orthodox) control over religious matters in the state, the following quote by Hoffman, in Sherwood’s story, purporting to highlight the religious-secular divide in one Israeli community, strained credulity.

Despite some notable legal victories, “this is still a huge issue”, said [Anat] Hoffman, who is also director of the Israel Religious Action Centre, which campaigns against segregation and the exclusion of women. “Every day we get calls reporting things to us. Just yesterday, we heard that the water-drinking fountains at Petah Tikva cemetery have been segregated.”

Since Hoffman evidently didn’t reveal the identity of her source to Sherwood, we decided to contact our friend Anne (A resident of Petah Tikvah who blogs at Anne’s Opinions) for comment.

Here’s  her reply:

I decided to go to the cemetery to see for myself.  Whilst I first checked with my husband and sister to see if they remembered any such water fountains (and they both said it’s rubbish), I wanted to confirm for myself that nothing had changed recently, as suggested in the article.

As it happened I got there during a funeral (so I visited my grandmother’s grave while I was there) and then wandered around and took photos of the taps. First of all, there are no “drinking fountains” at the cemetery. I don’t think any cemetery has these.  What they do have are taps to ritually wash your hands when leaving the cemetery (Netilat Yadayim). As you can see (in the photos below), there were men and women washing hands together. The second set of taps are located outside the men’s toilets but are certainly used by both men and women. As you can see, there is no sign at all about separation, and I have washed my hands there many times. The “wall” dividing the two sides is simply to allow more taps in one small area.

I’ve been (sadly) to many funerals, most of them for religious people, and I’ve never washed hands separately or felt the need to do so voluntarily.

Here are the photos Anne took at the Petah Tikvah cemetery only yesterday.

pt
photo 4
photo 5

Those of us who blog for Israel know all too well that such seemingly little smears (no matter how flimsy the evidence) can often take on a life of their own.

Thanks to Anne, we now know that Hoffman’s rumor, carelessly repeated by the Guardian’s Jerusalem correspondent, appears to be completely without merit. 

102 comments on “Examining a rumor about Israel started by ‘Women of the Wall’ and repeated by the Guardian

  1. Anyone who visits the Western Wall can only be surprised to see women squeezed along a very small portion of the Wall, while men can pray at ease in about two-thirds of the Wall. It seems to suggest that a man is worth two women, and it’s unacceptable in a modern democracy. It’s also strange considering that in the past, men and women were not segregated at the Wall.

    • It appears Nat subscribes to the Orr Scale – that a Jewish “chosen” life is worth over 1,000 Palestinian lives because that was the exchange rate in the Shalit deal. Clearly, by his reasoning, the fact that Orthodox Judaism dictates that men and women pray seperately (there is a section of the Wall set aside for mixed prayer for those who do not wish to pray seperately) is clear proof that Israel “values” men and women are differently.

      You really are a very shallow, deluded troll, aren’t you Nat.

      • “It appears Nat subscribes to the Orr Scale”

        Labenal, your heinous comments are LIBEL.

        Like a clear majority of Israelis, I suscribe to the two-state solution, in line with the Road Map for Peace. Sadly there will always be some extremist nutcases who reject peace.

        • Laughable! Absolutely laughable! If you believe I have libelled you, please sue me. PLEASE! I would love that!

          Please? Oh go on… please.

          Please!!!!!!!!

        • You, prick, do not get to “suscribe”[sic] to anything.
          You’re a paid, disgruntled, Dutch(!) troll.
          You have nothing to do with Israel, and but for your paycheck, none of this would be your concern.
          Furthermore, I don’t believe for a moment that any of the cut-and-paste drivel you post here is of your own making. You’re using a manual handed to you, by whoever dispatched you here in the first place.
          I can’t stress this enough, and I’d like to turn Mr. Levick’s attention to this, as well:
          Stop trolling, sp’amming and clogging up these pages.
          By peaceful means, or otherwise.

            • Telling the Truth, troll-y, is not an “insult”…
              Or is reality now blinding you too?
              Stop trolling, s.pamming, and inundating these threads.
              Preferably, focus on your own Dutch problems first; I’m sure there’s money in that too…

              • Dear 101, you’re not responsible for this website, Mr Levick is.

                If Mr Levick wished to limit the number of comments that someone can post, he would do it. It’s not difficult.

                • He will, in due time.
                  And then, with any luck, the next time we’ll be seeing you, is when they haul you before an Amsterdam court, on charges of “Indecent exposure”…

                • Adam should ban you since you are breaking the only rule this site has: “that at CiF Watch we support open and honest debate about the Israel/Palestinian conflict including harsh criticism of Israel as long as the criticism of Israel is similar to that leveled against any other nation of the world.” I’ve clearly demonstrated in my many posts exposing your deep-seated antisemitic hatred that you have violated this one and simple rule. Adam please do something about this.

            • There you go again. You always revert to these taunting tactics when you have been exposed and have no response. You try to make people think that you are rational and are merely trying to debate. You are not. You are trying to spew venom and spread it onto these pages. Perhaps you should move out of your mothers basement if you are a guy or move to Saudi Arabia if you are a girl.

        • Nat: “your heinous comments are LIBEL” + “Sadly there will always be some extremist nutcases who reject peace”

          = the Hamas Charter. Can’t you put two and two together Nat? All the peaceniks live under the progressive rule of the brothers in Gaza we are to presume?

          PS, love that word heinous, never heard you apply it to Hamas throwing their political opponents off the roof, to dragging the bodies of ‘collaborators’ through the street, or to the murder of the Fogel children. Sympathy only for your own hurt ego and the perceived victims of Jewish criminality? Rage only against those who have you banged to rights.

        • No one cares what you subscribe to.

          Your lies about a two-state solution are tiring and exhausting. You clearly devote all of your time to slandering and libelling Israel and Jews, thinking that by calling us Zionists you can get away with being an antisemite. The fact that you are the first to comment on every post and only have negative things to say, while you spend no time criticizing Islam–which is the majority religion of over 50 nations and rules over 35 nations–shows how antisemitic you are. So in essence, every post from you on this forum is libel. Every word you utter about Israel or the Jews is slander. So don’t tell us your for a two-state solution when every word you utter or write is aimed at the destruction of Israel and ultimately the Jews.

      • Labenal, if you took some time to read other people’s comments instead of engaging in hate troll, you’d notice that I did not object to asking men and women to pray separately at the Kotel.

        However I do object at the fact that women are squeezed in one-third of the Wall, while men have access to two-thirds (even slightly more). This is disgraceful. The Kotel should be equally divided between men and women.

        • Nat – if you go into any orthodox synagogue anywhere in the world, you will see the majority of the space is reserved for men. Could this be because (and you would know this if you knew anything about Judaism, which you clearly don’t) the obligation to attend a synagogue and join in communal prayer ONLY applies to men. Women are welcome to attend, but not OBLIGATED to do so. Hence the disparity in space provision. It really is quite simple – just like you.

          • Labenal, you seem to have forgotten one very important fact of Jewish life: not all Jews are Orthodox. There’s no reason why Reform and Conservative Jews should be treated like second-class citizens. Orthodox Jews are free to do whatever they want in their own synagogues. However it is unacceptable to let them squeeze women out of the Western Wall, which belongs to all Jewish men and women, not only to Orthodox men.

            • Labenal, you (who accuse others of failing to read your posts properly) have clearly failed to read my posts properly. As I pointed out above, there is an area of the Wall set aside for mixed prayer if that is your bag.

              But let’s address the general point. If you go to a local cinema to watch a film, you wear jeans and a t-shirt. If you go to a world premier in Hollywood, you wear a dinner suit/designer gown. If you are go to the pub, you can whisper, shout or sing as you please. if you go to the Supreme Court, you’d better just speak when it’s your turn.

              Similarly, if you go to any religion’s holiest sites, you RESPECT that religion’s ways. If I were to visit Mecca (which I can’t because I’m not Muslim) and I was asked to take off my shoes or not go into the women’s section or whatever, I would bloody well do so, because I RESPECT that is what is done there. So, if you go to the holiest site in Judaism, and you are asked to cover your head, or your shoulders (if you are woman) or not pray where the men are, then you bloody well do so out of RESPECT for the fundamentals of the faith.

              What you have failed to demonstrate is why the bloody hell the holiest site in Judaism should be organised in such a way as to please Nat. Your arrogance is astounding.

              • Labenal, the issue here is not how people dress at the Kotel. The issue here is that women are squeezed in only one-third of the Kotel, while men are at ease in the remaining two-thirds. This is unacceptable. You see women squeezed and trying desperately to approach the Wall, which proves very difficult due to the ridiculously small amount of space they were given. In the meantime, men have so much space that they can’t fill it all.

                • Nat – have you ever BEEN to the Kotel? I have – many times. And I can tell you that at busy times, men are far from “at ease” in the space allotted to them. On a Shabbat morning, or during a Yom Tov, you can’t get near the wall on the men’s side, as people are dozens deep. You can hardly concentrate on your prayers, even if you stand further back, because you are constantly being pushed past by others despereate to approach the Wall (as you put it).

                  Sadly, since the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and the Muslims took over the majority of the Temple Mount, there is very limited space for Jews to pray at the Wall. Nobody is happy about this. Your allegation that “men have so much space they can’t fill it all” is just absurd.

                • “Labenal, the issue here is not how people dress at the Kotel.”

                  No, “nat,” the issue here is that Harriet Sherwood wrote an article and used 3rd hand information to establish a non-fact. She didn’t make the slightest attempt to establish the veracity of what she wrote, and then along with her cohorts at the Guardian put it out as a “fact.” That’s an example of the Guardian’s journalistic malpractice in the service of a political agenda. That’s what this website investigates and exposes.

                • Shut the F up already. She responded to that ridiculous allegation and tore it apart. Do not act like it wasn’t addressed. Or are you a f***ing goldfish?

            • Let’s be clear. Reform and Conservative Jews are not subject to Orthodox rules, save for a watered down version for the Kotel. They don’t have to bury their relatives in ultra-orthodox cemeteries. It is clear the Kotel is more important to the orthodox community than the reform or conservative.

              I also have to point out this one very important character trait you have. Labenal was just talking about the nature of prayer services in orthodox synagogues. You don’t even respond to that. You start a new monologue saying that Reform and Conservative Jews are “second-class citizens.” What the hell does that mean first of all? Why would you even use the term “second-class citizen?” And what the hell does this have to do with prayer services at orthodox synagogues? Rather than admit defeat or agree with another person’s rational argument, you shift the focus, in hopes of “catching” us and therefore verifying your antisemitic beliefs.

              You are scum. You are a nobody. You are unintelligent. I’m surprised you can spell.

            • Why are you feeding it to Europe?
              What aren’t you trolling on Dutch blogs, about it… since you are, after all, DUTCH?!
              And most of all, why are you trolling here, is the question, for cash?

            • Why are you trolling here is the question?
              And shouldn’t you, a Dutch citizen be appalled at the fact that your countrymen are poisoning the Continent?
              And since you are typical of Dutch asses, this is really a double injury to the Europeans: The meat is crappy, and so is the animal itself.

            • Do you have nothing to say? Did they not cover this in your “How to spread antisemitic propaganda” booklet? Hmmmm, seems like someone doesn’t belong here.

        • Nat, “I do object at the fact that women are squeezed in one-third of the Wall, while men have access to two-thirds”

          Actually, I don’t disagree with you on this point.

    • The reason for the split is the wall is primarily a religious prayer site, and fir theb main morning prayers primarily men turn up.
      As for woman of the wall they are the equivalent of protistants demanding to run services in the vatican. Their leader is reform- a movement which historically removed all referance to jerusalem from their prayers and to this day are against the type of worship that took place at the temple. So they are hypocrites trying to take over a site that always was an orthodox site. But sherwood doesn’t really make all these important facts clear.
      Regarding the water fountain bit she is totally ignorant for charadim know jolly well you cannot bring food into a cemetary, a the halochoh says you cannot eat it if it goes in very much less actually eat it there!

    • “Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity: this will be most conducive to their purity – (and,) verily, Allah is aware of all that they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms beyond what may be apparent thereof; hence let them draw their veils over their bosoms.” (Qur’an 24:30-1)

      “I heard the Apostle of God say, “One of you who believes in God and in the Last Day should not raise her head until the men raise their heads lest she should see the private parts of men.”(Sunan Abu Dawud, No. 850).” This indicates women are not allowed to pray with men. All of Islam believes this, that includes Islamic states. You don’t level any criticisms against Muslims for the exact same thing a sect of our religious body does. That is the definition of antisemitism.

      How about the Taliban in Afghanistan? Where is your criticism against their terror-based, repressive regime? You criticize Israel for one religious aspect, a minor non-violent hiccup in democracy, in an attempt to delegitimize the entire being of our nationhood and right to sovereignty over our land? You are an antisemite by the most widely used definition, and everyone here agrees.

      http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/1999/0317/taliban.html

      http://www.feminist.org/afghan/taliban_women.asp

      Where is your loud and obnoxious voice for these poor Muslim women who are shackled by their male Muslim masters? You are an antisemite for not devoting even a fifth of your time for speaking out about these injustices in the Arab world.

      http://www.feminist.com/activism/take_iran_98.html

      Where are you on the injustices taking place today in Iran under their law? Women don’t get the same health care as men do and women rights issues are not to be discussed in parliament unless they abide by Sharia law. Israel has no such disgusting law, no segregation of any public service at all. The bus segregation kids are not sanctioned by law, but you go ahead and paint it as if Israel has decreed such an order. You are a despicable antisemite.

      Muslim mobs targeted and raped “at least 168″ Chinese Indonesian women (*see http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/p-4389-9780824830571.aspx)

      Go to National Organization for Women’s (NOW) website. Here is a link to their global feminist issues page. I’m hard pressed to find anything on Israel.

      The following is a page dedicated to women’s rights issues from the best law school in Canada: http://www.law-lib.utoronto.ca/Diana/afghanwomen.htm And you have the audacity to spend your time demonizing Israel with these frivolous third party accounts? You are a “disgusting piece of work.”

      “In Saudi Arabia, a male doctor is not allowed to treat a female patient, unless there are no female specialists available; and it is also not permissible for women to treat men” (Haghian 1988). “Religious Saudis believe it is forbidden for a woman to eat in public, as part of her face would be exposed, so in most restaurants barriers are present to conceal women” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_segregation_and_Islam –source needed).

      In Saudi Arabia, “women must always cover their shoulders and leave tight and revealing clothes back home. The best fashion guideline is “conceal rather than reveal”. Teenagers are also required to dress modestly in public places. Jeans should not be tight fitting and low necks and tank tops are not recommended.” This is the norm in Saudi Arabia, yet you are not up in arms. Because you so love this new trend of antisemitism veiled under the BS label of anti-Zionism. You are an antisemite.

      In Saudi Arabia, “the public practice of any religion other than Islam is not allowed. Non-Muslims (“kaffirs”) may not enter mosques in Saudi Arabia and the area surrounding Mecca (about 25 km radius from the city).” You are then advised to do the following by a tourism site: “So if you are traveling by bus or taxi do find out about your route beforehand, in case you cross the line barring non-Muslims from going near Mecca inadvertently.” This may not be about women, but last I checked there are no police stationed at the wall to remove non-believers, only agitators.

      In Saudi Arabia, “women will not be served in restaurants where there are no family sections, and there is an attempt to bar women completely from some smaller shops and fast food joints. Municipal buses have separate sections for women, and unaccompanied women are not allowed to travel by intercity bus or train. Women are also not allowed to drive.” This needs no explanation, but then again it’s not about Israel, so it must not be relevant or it’s just a Zionist lie perpetrated by the Jew-run media networks, right? You are an antisemite for not devoting your time to this outrage, while focusing all your time libelling Israel and Jews.

      In Saudi Arabia, “an unaccompanied woman is not allowed to check into a hotel without a local sponsor’s letter, so your sponsor should inform the hotel in advance about your arrival. Saudi Arabia’s youth hostels are completely out of bounds for women. It would be a good idea for women tourists to wear the “abayya” (a long black cloak like garment) covering their clothes. It is also advisable for women to cover their heads in remote, small and conservative towns such as Jizan, Hail, Najran, Sakaka, and Tabuk.” Have fun travelling to visit your open and tolerant friends in their native lands.

      In Saudi Arabia, “sexual harassment is common in the form of leers or obscene comments, especially in closed spaces such as aeroplanes. If someone gropes you, scream, so that the man is shamed for having touched a woman in public.” In the civilized world this man would be in jail for sexual assault. But it’s OK for Muslim countries to do? You will neglect this obvious human rights violation simply because it doesn’t fit with your “Israel is the devil and the poor Muslims are being colonized by satanic Zionists” narrative. You are an antisemite to the very core.

      Muslims even segregate their online social networks. But you want to paint Israel as intolerant. You are dirty and disgusting and have no moral compass whatsoever.

    • All of these articles, are more than two years old, nitwit…
      Here we have an eyewitness account of what’s actually going on.
      Besides, the Ha’aretz article directly contradicts you, by stating that the Ministry of Religious Affairs forbids segregation…
      Is your trolling so entrenched, you can’t be bothered to read your own links?!
      I see a pay-deduction coming along. You better watch it.

      • We don’t have any witness account, since the photos were clearly taken when no one was around.

        Segregation in cemeteries occurs during burials, when there are people around to enforce it. This is not the case in the photos, which show the place devoid of people.

        • Right Nat, so those 3 people – one man and two women – in the first photo are just figments of my imagination? And the first-hand accounts given by Anne of the numerous funerals (attended, I presume, by actual human beings) are meaningless?

          Seriously, you do pick the strangest fights.

          • Attempts by some ultra-orthodox activitists to impose gender segregation are nothing new, and have been met by strong opposition from the majority of Israelis.

            I’m surprised to learn that you’re not aware of protests against gender segregation on some bus lines in Jerusalem, or of the near impossibility of showing women on public advertisements in Jerusalem, or of attempts at segregating some streets in Mea Sharim during religious holidays, etc etc

            • Besides, this CIF Watch article does not make any sense. All the Guardian does it to quote Anat Hoffman. There’s nothing wrong in quoting Ms Hoffman.

              • Nat I will shock you here. I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with quoting Ms Hoffman. But there is something wrong with a professional journalist quoting Ms Hoffman and failing to carry out a simple check to see whether what she says is even slightly factually accurate.

                • “But there is something wrong with a professional journalist quoting Ms Hoffman and failing to carry out a simple check to see whether what she says is even slightly factually accurate.”
                  And that’s the point. Sherwood had gotten what she came for. For Harriet there was no need to investigate further. It’s called bias, and anti-Israeli bias runs deep at the Guardian.

              • “Women of the Wall is an organization whose “mission is to achieve the social and legal recognition of our right, as women, to wear prayer shawls, pray, and read from the Torah collectively and out loud at the Western Wall.”

                Those facts are undisputed. They are agitators. They are trying to change the status quo. They are activists.

                Anat Hoffman is their leader and her mission is to agitate, change the status quo. She is the chief activist.”

                http://finkorswim.com/2012/10/22/is-anat-hoffman-a-victim-of-religious-persecution-at-the-western-wall/

            • Diversionary tactics – the very sign of a troll. You can’t cast any doubt on the first hand evidence of an actual person (who actually lives in Petach Tikvah and has actually been to the actual cemetery and taken actual photos of the actual washing facilities with actual people) which proves that the Guardian have (again) printed an unsubstantiated rumour about Israel as if it was a fact, so you veer off onto other matters.

              By the way – I can confirm that you don’t win the “scoop of the year” prize by pointing out that Orthodox Judaism likes to keep men and women separate and frowns on the exposure of female flesh, as this has pretty much been the attitude for the last few thousand years. I reserve my view as to whether this is “wrong” or “right”.

            • Your first paragraph does not sound anything like your last paragraph. It is more coherent and concise. This leads me to believe that you’ve plagiarized it, as there are no quotations around it. For shame!

              You are dealing with a different breed of intelligence in this forum. That is why you are getting downvoted so much. Adios mamacita.

        • Oh, you’re blind too?
          Those three people in the picture, are, what exactly?
          And since when do you know what occurs at funerals?! You live in the Netherlands for God’s sake! What relation does this bear to you?
          And furthermore, there really is “segregation”;
          From your own Ha’aretz article:

          Religious Affairs Minister Yaakov Margi denied that there is any trend toward excluding women on the part of the burial societies. He told the conference the societies are generally receptive to family requests even when those requests are difficult to swallow.

          Stop trolling, and learn to read, moron. It would help if you could also discern details from photos, though I believe this is asking too much, from your pea-sized brain.

        • Are you calling me a liar Nat? Come on right out and say it.

          You have no witness accounts? So what am I? Chopped liver?

          I was at the cemetery yesterday afternoon at 3.15 p.m. I arrived in the middle of a funeral consisting of hundreds of people. I stayed away from the crowd and went to visit my grandmother’s grave. When I saw people heading back to the exit, I went to the taps and took a photo. It’s not very good quality but I had to sneak it. People looked suspicious when I started taking photos. In the picture you can see a man in a kipa washing his hands next to a woman who had just finished washing and another woman who was approaching the taps.

          Come on out, come on, call me a liar. I’m waiting, you disgusting piece of work.

            • Oh the irony! Nat calls Anne a liar, and then accuses her of failing to engage in respectful debate!

              My sides are splitting!

            • “Nat,”
              Can’t YOU engage in a respectful debate? Why do YOU have to insult people?
              You’re trolling, disregard for eye-witness accounts, off-topic comments, and general disregard for facts is abhorrent.

            • You repeat your question on auto-reply so I’ll auto reply my previous reply to you.

              I will engage in respectful debate with someone who respects me. You don’t. You imply that I am a liar. So no, I will not engage in respectful debate with you. You are obnoxious, a liar, and probably illiterate too.

            • She’s merely calling a duck a duck. You just can’t come back to her counterpoint so you resort to antagonizing her and trying to discredit her. Well, in all our eyes you have been discredited and exposed for what you are: A “disgusting piece of work.”

          • Anne don’t worry about Nat, s/he is a demented pathological liar. Everything s/he knows about Israel is coming from Guardian like shitholes, One day s/he is a Lebanese male the next an Israeli female (who obviously never ever set foot in Israel), one day s/he is staying in Jordan happily (with his/her Jewish friends!), the next in Gaza (also with the same set of buddies). Naturally s/he likes to teach us about Judaism, Israel, anti-Semitism, etc.
            To make a longish story short s/he is just a especially slimy and moronic specimen of the average Guardinista Jew hater, answering his/her crap is only a waste of time.

          • By the way, dear Anne, I never wrote that you “lied”. I wrote that we have your account, and another account from Ms Hoffman. These accounts are conflicting.

            • You implied that I was lying. You said “there are no witness accounts” when I had provided the very witness account that Adam wrote about in his post. What is that if not accusing me of lying?

              These are not “conflicting accounts”. Hoffman recounted something she had heard which was then repeated third-hand by Sherwood. I am telling you from my first-hand experience. And if you don’t believe me then you are calling me a liar and I shall ask Adam for your IP address, email and other details so that I can sue you for slander.

              • And if you don’t believe me then you are calling me a liar and I shall ask Adam for your IP address, email and other details so that I can sue you for slander.

                While you’re there: can you also sue those mental midgets on this site who’ve called me a “Nazi”?

              • Anne, I repeat what I said: I never wrote that you “lied”, I wrote that we have your account, and we also have another account from Ms Hoffman. In the end, both accounts are conflicting and we have no means of knowing whether she or you are right.

    • Nat, none of these pertain to the quote by Hoffman which I cited. Her rumor about segregated “drinking fountains” at cemeteries in PT is flatly untrue.

      • Dear Mr Levick, so far all we have are conflicting reports – Ms Hoffman’s word against Anne’s.

        Besides, the issue of gender segregation is far from new, and is of concern for many Israelis who believe that respecting Orthodox’ practices does not mean that they have the right to impose gender segregation on some public bus lines or streets.

        • These are not “conflicting accounts”. Mine is a first-hand account as told by me to Adam. Hoffman’s is 2nd hand, heard from “someone” – she does not say who – and repeated at 3rd hand by Sherwood. Hoffman’s account is provably wrong, whether by intent or error is hard to tell.

          But then you knew that didn’t you, you obnoxious little troll whose only goal is to derail threads.

          Well done. You’ve derailed this. Instead of being a discussion about the accuracy of the report of segregated drinking fountains in the PT cemetery, you have managed to talk about gender segregation in the Orthodox Jewish world, and have called me a liar into the process.

          I do not know why Adam allows a worm like you to even read this blog let alone comment freely.

          As to your previous questions why I don’t engage in respectful debate with you, I should have answered that my answers to you have been eminently respectful, way too respectful for a vile piece of work like you.

      • Just wait Alexa. Nat will accuse you of not being a reliable witness, or of being “just another narrative” versus Anat Hoffman’s second hand and Sherwood’s third-hand story.

    • An ultra-orthodox religious burial ground is allowed to have their rules. Women are not allowed to pray with men in mosques, even in democratic nations. Women are not allowed to drive cars throughout the Arabic world. Women have to hide their entire bodies. Women must worry for their lives if they don’t go through with a marriage, or commit adultery, and so on. In Arabic countries, this is the law, the over-arching culture. That is true gender segregation. The point I’m making here is at least Israel has laws in place that in theory should be preventing this. People are not perfect, but the entire Islamic civilization is toxic.

    • From the third link: “Segregation and exclusion of women has spread like wildfire to many aspects of public life; post offices, buses, and supermarkets and now it has even reached the arena of public death.”

      They provide no evidence to this effect. It’s a baseless lie, like your entire existence. You can’t do any real research. You rely on other antisemites to write your dirty thoughts for you because you can’t even string together three words. Get lost.

  2. But to be fair to the Guardian (and Nat): photos 2 and 3 clearly show segregated toilets. What a disgrace.

  3. Yes, it might seem kind of crappy that worshippers are gender-segregated at the Western Wall (and I was there) – but I’m still waiting for Peter Beaumont to unleash a series of articles about there being zero chance of a woman being appointed Pope …

    • Thanks for that David. So it appears that there WAS some separation of men and women at washing facilities in a cemetery somewhere in Israel, but it is important to note that (although my Ivrit is very poor and I am relying on the dubious services of Google Translate) these signs were removed after protest, which can only be good news, and shows democracy at work.

      • Google Translate apparently got the gist correct. Yes, the signs were removed very rapidly, Here’s my translation of the last paragraph:

        “The Religious Services Ministry agreed that the separation at the cemetery was inappropriate. Following ynet’s inquiry, the Ministry took care of the problem and reported, “There was signage above the taps, and it was removed.” “

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