Mya Guarnieri’s recent article on CiF prompted me, not for the first time, to ask myself just what makes her ( and others like her who sometimes grace the pages of CiF) qualified to analyse events in Israel according to ‘Guardian think’. A Master of Fine Arts degree from Florida State University is no doubt a worthy achievement in itself, but it hardly seems to be the natural qualification of choice to be demanded from a person engaging in analysis of one of the more politically and historically complicated regions of the world.
Like Seth Freedman with his background in the London stock market and Rachel Shabi with her degree in politics and literature, Guarnieri’s major qualification as far as the Guardian is concerned appears to be that she relatively recently relocated to Tel Aviv-Yaffo. But that in itself is obviously not enough to secure a column on CiF – otherwise we would have several hundred newish residents of Israel’s second city furiously scribbling away on behalf of the Guardian. The point seems to be that the English-speaking new immigrant should be able to combine a familiar Anglo-centric view of Israel which the Guardian reader will not find remotely challenging, together with the moral justification of being a Jewish Israeli in order to deflect criticism of anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic bias.
And thus the reports the reader is served by writers such as Guarnieri, Shabi and Freedman are like choosing a kosher McDonald’s hamburger in a region rich with unfamiliar, exotic food. It may be kosher, but it’s still a hamburger; it has no connection to the deep-rooted traditions and culture of the region. It doesn’t reflect anything of the environment in which it is served – instead it keeps the consumer safely within the confines of known and comfortable reference points. It is neither challenging nor outlook-broadening. It demands nothing of the reader other than to file yet another already anticipated experience in the memory file labelled ‘Israel’.
Like all fast-food, this junk journalism can become addictive, both to the consumer and the producer. A perusal of Guarnieri’s blog shows that since its establishment in April 2008, she has been churning out the same old stuff again and again for outlets such as Al Jazeera, Huffington Post, Ma’an and, of course, CiF. She also contributes to sites which explicitly call for the end of the Jewish state such as Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada. Her promotion of the one-state ‘solution’ and her recurrent theme of Israel as an ever-more totalitarian and fascist state no doubt go down well with the audiences at those outlets, but that doesn’t make her material any more representative of what really goes on in the country which for some reason she has chosen to live than a McDonald’s hamburger eaten between the cramped and bustling market stalls of shouk Hacarmel.
We all know that the struggling mainstream media puts its focus today on websites which constantly need updating in order to keep readers interested. We are aware that the competition between sites such as CiF and the Huffington Post is for headlines and visuals, not in-depth analysis or facts and of the fact that foreign correspondents today rely largely upon recycling other people’s news from local sources because the fierce battle for hits means that they have little time to search out original material. One of the results of this is the torrent of junk-food journalism supplied by both foreign correspondents, of which there are more per capita in Israel than in any other country in the world, and local writers such as Guarnieri. All this does nothing to contribute to a greater understanding of Israel and the Middle East on the part of readers of sites such as CiF; in fact it seems to merely fossilise their already deeply held prejudices.
If I want to read something which will help me better understand the economic crisis in certain EU countries or the finer points of the banking collapse in the UK and the USA, I do not expect the Guardian to supply me with an article written by a layman whose sole qualification is that he has an auntie in Ireland and wears a Guinness hat on St. Patrick’s day or someone who just happens to have held a savings account with Northern Rock. And yet, populist junk-food journalism of the kind so readily proffered by CiF on the subject of Israel is swallowed blindly by an audience already so addicted to the poor diet it has been fed for so long that it no longer bothers to ask either itself or the Guardian if a certain writer is actually qualified in any way to contribute to the discussion, let alone to offer serious analysis of the type which influences opinions.
Let me assure the editors at CiF; the ill-informed personal opinions of a poetry graduate or a former inside trader do not contribute to the understanding of one of the more complex issues in the news; they merely constitute yet more of the repetitive sub-standard diet of propaganda which intelligent and discerning readers will avoid for the same reasons that they refrain from eating burgers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.





55 comments
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December 12, 2010 at 8:04 am
AKUS
“It may be kosher, but it’s still a hamburger”
An excellent description of Guarnieri’s writing, not to mention Shabi and Freedman. It is a real mystery why any outlet short of Al Jazeera picks up her rubbish.
December 12, 2010 at 8:04 am
MindTheCrap
“Like Seth Freedman with his background in the London stock market and Rachel Shabi with her degree in politics and literature, Guarnieri’s major qualification as far as the Guardian is concerned appears to be that she relatively recently relocated to Tel Aviv-Yaffo.”
Hmmmmm ….. when did Adam Levick relocate ? May 20, 2009 according to his blog site. Not a very good argument to use on this site …
And don’t forget that Seth Freedman did his stint in the IDF before he started writing for CiF.
December 12, 2010 at 8:49 am
peterthehungarian
MTC
Maybe you should read the article before minding the crap. Adam Levick may be a new immigrant, but he is not using his status spitting hate at his new home in some obviously hostile media forums like the Guardian, the al-Jazeera and Press TV – as Freedman and Guarnieri do.
I hope they met in a hate Israel coming together already – they are a perfect match for each other, both are experts on Judaism and Israel. Do you want to be invited to the “hatuna” and meet Daphna Baram and Rachel Shabi too?
December 12, 2010 at 8:58 am
Adam Levick
MTC, not an unreasonable point. However, my posts about Israel, and my Aliyah, have been first person essays, not analyzes. Further, dissecting anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism at CiF/the Guardian is something that is fully consistent with my professional work to date. I make no claims about understanding British or Israeli society better than native Brits or native Israelis. Further, Israelinurse also noted that neither Guarnieri nor Freedman have a background in Middle East Studies nor International Politics, to use but two relevant examples. If I was to apply for a job as an Israel correspondent (expert) for the Guardian (or as a frequent contributor), I think it would be reasonable of them to ask how I gained my expertise. As such, its fair to say that neither CiF contributors have a resume which seems compatible with their journalistic niche. Guarnieri’s belief that fascism is just around the corner in Israel is a wildly misinformed diatribe – demonstrating that, as a political commentator (and/or Israel commentator) she’s in WAY above her head.
December 12, 2010 at 9:27 am
Bluesea
Ten threads about that talentless dilettante.
Who da hell is Mya Guarnieri anyway? Some crazy chick who went to Israel to find a hubby or something. Leave her alone. She is small potatoes.
The Guardian is the real enemy here. It’s like the effin’ Borg. You can’t reason with it or make it see things your way. You kill it off. That’s how you do it.
Bombard the Guardian’s sponsors with emails and phone calls. Chock off their revenue streams.
I’ll stay away from CIFWatch too as long as these endless, trivial debates go on.
December 12, 2010 at 9:45 am
benorr
Mya G,another reject that family and friends,pleaded of her to leave and migrate to Israel.Preferably to live in the comfort of the bubble of Tel-Aviv Yaffo.
There are a lot of these Anglo Saxons like her and Seth Freedman who were dumped on Israel by their families and friends.
December 12, 2010 at 9:56 am
benorr
To understand these people lilke,Mya,Seth,Shabby,BellaM,you just have to read their tweets,you will shake your head,in amazement.
December 12, 2010 at 9:57 am
MindTheCrap
Adam Levick:
My criticism was not directed at you. I just think that this particular criticism of Guarnieri by IN was somewhat misdirected. Newcomers to the country will naturally have gaps in their knowledge and it is not their fault, but they have to accept legitimate criticism that stems from it. This has nothing to do with anyone’s ideology, as PeterTheHungarian should realize.
December 12, 2010 at 10:00 am
MindTheCrap
PeterTheHungarian:
“Do you want to be invited to the “hatuna” and meet Daphna Baram and Rachel Shabi too?”
I think you should read my comments on the various CiF Shabi, Baram, Guarnieri and Freedman threads before posting a comment like that. An apology would be appropriate.
December 12, 2010 at 10:50 am
Geary
“… together with the moral justification of being a Jewish Israeli in order to deflect criticism of anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic bias”
Though the ruse of using AsaJews to bash Irael is busted by now. No one is fooled any more
The Guardian hates Israel’s guts, It despises what it stands for: the great modern western values of freedom, individualism, respect of the person, human rights.
It will even stoop to doing Hamas’ and other terrorists’ dirty propaganda work for them
Liberal voice, my ass.
December 12, 2010 at 11:00 am
Hawkeye
Love the analogy to McDonalds!! So true.
December 12, 2010 at 11:59 am
Yohoho
CiF the junk food of the web! How true.
December 12, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Yohoho
Bluesea, you don’t agree that taking to bits the half-baked and ill-researched articles on CiF about Israel and their authors’ claims to journalistic scholarship is useful?
Amazing!
December 12, 2010 at 12:17 pm
peterthehungarian
MTC
I agree – you should apologise, you disregarded the substance of the article in order to make some snide remarks about Adam Levick. Did he exploited his knowledge of the English language and his Jewishness catering lies to an obviously hostile paper as Guarnieri, Freedman and their ilk did? Did he complain about the big bad Israel in the Press TV (Freedman) and al-Jazeera (Guarnieri)?
But I have to admit – my question regarding your relation to Rachel and Daphna (after seeing their picture) was a bit too strong and I apologise.
December 12, 2010 at 12:54 pm
MindTheCrap
Peter:
Your comment is irrelevant. Even Adam understands the point I was making.
December 12, 2010 at 1:14 pm
peterthehungarian
MTC
I’m not the lawyer of Adam Levick and his post doesn’t change the fact that you just made an easy and totally irrelevant personal remark not connected to the subject of the article.
December 12, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Fabian ben Israel
Bravo, Israelinurse!
December 12, 2010 at 2:08 pm
MindTheCrap
Peter:
The remark which referred indirectly to Adam referred to a point INurse made in her article and so it is relevant. Adam understood what I was saying and posted his opinion : “MTC, not an unreasonable point”. You are correct – he doesn’t need a lawyer, especially when he is not making a case.
December 12, 2010 at 8:22 pm
myaguarnieri
Interesting, Israelinurse, that you ignored the fact I got my start at The Jerusalem Post and contributed regularly to the Jpost for over two years. Isn’t selective omission of facts something you CIFwatch accused me of?
And it’s funny, too, that you called my website a blog. Let’s look at what I have posted on the front page under the heading About: “This website, which is not a blog, includes a selection of my published work.”
Ooops, missed that “not a blog” bit and decided to call it whatever you like, didn’t you? Surely the type of error you would spend says skewering me for here…
December 12, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Hawkeye
Mya
We actually spend time skewering you on substantive matters like intentionally misleading readers as to the reactions of the Israeli state to the discriminatory decree of the rabbis (you make it so easy). And fyi a PCC complaint is going to be filed against the Guardian for your misleading readers which is no small matter.
December 12, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Bluesea
December 12, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Yohoho
———————————————————————————————-
In all frankness, I’m not really sure how you’ve managed to infer all that.
The Guardian uses someone like Mya or Dafna both as a shield and a sword. In other words, they let nominal Jews attack the Jewish state; which is, in a way, political cynicism at its lowest common denominator.
So rather than focusing exclusively here on the sock puppets, who prostitute themselves and turn their back on their own flesh and blood, cifwatchers should go after the puppet masters pulling the strings.
You won’t win this game if you continue to play by their rules. Not a winning strategy whatsoever. It’s a given.
All this incessant complaining about CIF’s unsavory pieces won’t amount to much at the end of the day, and to presume otherwise is foolish and even downright delusional.
To sum up it all, you cut off their revenue streams. That’s how you beat them at their own game.
Thanks for your comment.
December 12, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Bluesea
Is it really her? Maybe.
Listen up Mya and listen good, no one likes turncoats in this world.
Deep down inside, those Giardian demons don’t respect you at all.
They just use you.
December 12, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Bluesea
Guys, go after the Guardian and leave Mya alone.
December 12, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Bluesea
lifnei iver lo titen michshol.
December 13, 2010 at 12:29 am
Abtalyon
Israelinurse:
Perhaps you are being too hard on Ms Guarnieri. She is only trying to make a living and I don’t suppose that publishing books of poetry yields much of an income. . I know nothing about journalism but it seems obvious that an article writer will submit material acceptable to the editors’ policy, political, social and financial. So, no surprises about the content of Guarnieri’s pieces for the Guardian and for some of the other recipients. If she is a really good journalist and can manipulate words and ideas cleverly, she should be able to come up with an article which is as pro-Israel as her actual articles are anti-Israel.
PS. Neither a short time in Israel nor spending 15 months as a squaddie in the IDF is a bar to having and expressing opinion about the country. Every person is entitled to that but, as a former teacher of mine once said, some opinions are worth more than others.
December 13, 2010 at 1:10 am
MindTheCrap
Abtalyon:
Exactly my point – everyone is entitled to express their opinion but has to expect and accept criticism is their lack of knowledge and experience leads to inaccuracies, irregardless of their personal ideology. This applies equally to Mya Guarnieri and Adam Levick. (I am not making a quantitative analysis of who is more “inaccurate”).
December 13, 2010 at 4:09 am
myaguarnieri
Are you going to file one against the AFP, too? Because this statement, written on Friday, backs me up:
“Although Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu joined in the chorus of condemnation, there has been no move to discipline the signatories, most of whom are understood to be state employees.”
Again, as I said in the comments section of CIF, you seem to be confused between words and action. Everyone can condemn all they want but that doesn’t mean anything if the state doesn’t lift a finger.
After a similar edict was issued in South Tel Aviv this summer, real estate agents answered the call and said, publicly, that they would refuse to rent to African refugees. So rabbis clearly have influence on the public. And, as many of those who signed the latest proclamation are municipal employees, the state is responsible for them. As such, the state has a duty to discipline them.
What has the state done?
The rabbis were not fired. They were not even suspended pending investigation. Nothing.
CIF watch: I admire your passion. And I am intrigued by your criticism of me and other journalists. I am also interested in new ideas. Perhaps, you would best serve yourself– and the state– if you approached the discussion in the same, open manner.
December 13, 2010 at 4:48 am
MindTheCrap
Mya Guarnieri:
It’s interesting to note somewhat similar stories in Britain:
- The continuing racist and antisemitic statements by various Muslim public and religious figures that are expressed continuously in Britain (there is a story on this site about a recent lecture at LSE).
- the story that almost no black students have been admitted to Oxbridge colleges in recent years.
In neither case have we seen any govt reaction or action, and remember that the universities are heavily subsidized by the government and there is legislation against hate speeches.
I am not implying that ‘two wrongs make a right’ (my comments on your thread speak for themselves). However the Guardian obsession with such events in Israel compared with their nominal coverage (at best) of parallel stories in Britain lead many people to the obvious conclusion about the Guardian’s moral standards.
December 13, 2010 at 5:59 am
peterthehungarian
Ms Guarnieri
You ask: “What has the state done?”
The state did this:
Minority Affairs Minister Avishay Braverman has also asked Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman to begin the process of suspending Eliyahu immediately from his post as municipal rabbi.
With other words: a government minister formally started a legal proceeding against the initiator of this shame.
This has been published on 07.12.10 a day before your rant on CIF saw hit the web.
Either you are extremely uninformed about the subject or you lied deliberately. It’s OK – exactly this kind of moral and intellectual abilities are expected from your kind of “journalist”.
And yes I know: “You are not reporting on the issue…”
You and your kind of lying self-righteous good for nothings succeded to destroy the Israeli left completely.
December 13, 2010 at 6:45 am
myaguarnieri
peterthehungarian:
Minority Affairs Minister Avishay Braverman has also asked Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman to begin the process of suspending Eliyahu immediately from his post as municipal rabbi.
braverman ASKED. so what? the matter is out of his jurisdiction.
and has eliyahu been suspended? no. did neeman begin the process? no again.
words don’t mean anything if they don’t amount to action. and, the facts remain: NONE of the rabbis involved have been disciplined. all have retained their posts as municipal religious leaders. not one has been suspended pending investigation.
December 13, 2010 at 6:52 am
myaguarnieri
one more thing, peterthehungarian:
i’ve destroyed the israeli left? really? don’t you think you’re giving me way too much credit?
and, if that were the case, wouldn’t i be a darling of the right? wouldn’t cif watch just love me?
December 13, 2010 at 7:40 am
MindTheCrap
MyaG:
How do you know that Ne’eman did not begin the process ? Do you have contacts in the Justice Ministry ?
Do you know exactly what the suspension process is ? I would assume that in any democracy a civil servant cannot be suspended arbitrarily and it would be subject to a hearing , etc, etc.
December 13, 2010 at 7:56 am
Gerald Kreeve
Mya you seem to be prepared to exploit the cracks in Israeli society to your own benefit. Perhaps coming from a monumentally huge & relatively stable society like the USA you expect to kick hard to make even a tiny crack in society’s facade.
What we have in Israel was accomplished in 63 years with continuous warfare, no natural resources and a continuous absorption of refugees, most of them from countries where they weren’t integrated often uneducated and had developed their own strange customs. It takes generations to make an orderly state – and I hope that ours is never too orderly. The rabbis were the strongest figures in their golah and they will take the most time and effort to integrate into our society. Israel is beset by problems needing instant and complete attention, or hadn’t you noticed?
You would probably at least be receiving visits from the secret police if you lived in any other ME state.
How about a bit of honesty from you giving both good and bad aspects of Israel? How about a few articles discussing the progress made despite the odds or do you value your contacts with Al Jazeera too much for honesty?
December 13, 2010 at 8:05 am
peterthehungarian
Ms. Guarnieri
Maybe you read the Haaretz report equipped with exactly the same understanding abilities as yoy read my post.
I wrote: You and your kind of lying self-righteous good for nothings succeded to destroy the Israeli left completely.
Calm down please, this achievement is not yours alone. You have got a lot of very cooperative partners starting from far left anti-Israeli media sources like the Guardian and al-Jazeera, different far-left organizations like Gush Shalom, different Israeli failed politicos like Naomi Chazan, Yossi Beilin, Avram Burg etc., a bunch of as-a-Jews like yourself and ending with the leaders of the Palestinians.
Reading your answers I’m convinced that you alone wouldn’t be able to destroy a windblown sandcastle on the Tel-Avib beach.
So if a government minister calls the relevant colleague to investiagate – this is only a joke? – this is not an official intervention? The condemnation by the premier and the president should not have been mentioned in an article about these rabbis? Not according to your journalistic standards…
and, if that were the case, wouldn’t i be a darling of the right? wouldn’t cif watch just love me?
But you are exactly this Ms. Guarnieri. Were you minimally informed about Israeli society you would know that every time when a pseudo-humanist salon-leftie like you whose knowledge about Israel is limited to the Sheinkin street and Herzliya Pituah, who didn’t move a lone pebble fighting for peace – makes some idiotic statements, publishes a rant in a hostile anti-Israeli/anti-semite forum – the right accuses the real left being the same as you and your fellow travellers. If any of the right read your opus they had a field day.
Declaring CifWatch as “right” you simply demonstrated again your complete ignorance of Israeli society.
A couple of days ago your only argument was that “you are not reporting on the issue” since then you succeeded to dig your own hole much deeper.
Please keep it up…
December 13, 2010 at 8:16 am
MindTheCrap
Peter:
“pseudo-humanist salon-leftie like you whose knowledge about Israel is limited to the Sheinkin street and Herzliya Pituah”.
As opposed to a pseudo-humanist rightie whose knowledge about Israel is limited to Hebron and Yitzhar ?
Be serious for a change.
December 13, 2010 at 8:37 am
Israelinurse
Shalom Mya –
First let me apologise for describing your website as a blog. It was a genuine mistake and I’m afraid that I had no idea that the difference between the two was so important to you.
Having read your site extensively, I find it interesting that there is very little balance there, which is a pity because your article about the Egyptian restaurant in Tel Aviv, for example, was delightful.
You seem to be interested almost exclusively in writing about subjects which can be used to paint Israel in a bad light, particularly abroad. Like any other democracy, Israel has its problems and warts, but as those of us who have lived here for many years and been involved in campaigns and projects for social change know, differences in these areas are made on the ground here – within Israeli society – not on the pages of some foreign newspaper.
The only purpose articles such as yours serve are to create a monotone and highly unrealistic picture of Israel which is then used as ammunition against Israel and Israelis abroad. They serve to stoke the fires of bigotry against Israel and that, ultimately, is bound to be counter-productive in the elusive search for peace and compromise in this region.
Surely for you as a writer it would be a lot more challenging to explore aspects of Israel which do not necessarily conform to the ten-a-penny Israel-bashing diatribes of so many other writers?
Wherever one turns in this country there is an interesting story to be heard and the stories of Jews from, say, Hatzor HaGlilit or Sderot are no less interesting than those of migrant workers from the Philippines or Sudan. Who knows, but an understanding of the points of view of Israelis who, unlike yourself, do not have dual citizenship or any other place to go might even prompt you to consider whether your often expressed advocacy of a bi-national state is indeed a realistic position to hold.
December 13, 2010 at 8:50 am
Abtalyon
The suspension or dismissal of a Rabbi, elected by and serving a community is in the hands of the Chief Rabbinate. Grounds for doing so are listed under Clause 5, sub-clause gimmel, 1,2, in File 6613, Regulations governing Jewish Religious Services( Election of City Rabbis)2007.
I append the link for Hebrew readers.
http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/data/regulation/6613/6613.pdf
I would think that the Justice Ministry and the Chief Government Legal Advisor have no say in the matter until a complaint is made to the police, an investigation is carried out and a recommendation to prosecute on criminal charges is made. All this is a lengthy process and certainly not the instant action Mya Guarnieri thinks should happen. Meantime, the vast majority of Israelis from the moderate right to the moderate left of political opinion have condemned these rabbis in no uncertain terms; some rabbis who signed have since withdrawn their signatures.
December 13, 2010 at 8:53 am
Adam Levick
Ms. Guarneiri,
While I applaud you for participating on this thread, I must say that – leaving your errors of omission alone for now (The Guardian and/or PCC will address those substantive issues), I’d like you to address the extreme hyperbole you engage in when framing Israel.
Please explain how you can deduce, from the edicts of a few dozen (or even a few hundred) rabbis that such acts are “just the latest wave in a rising tide of religious fascism.”? You live in Israel, right? So, surely you must acknowledge and appreciate our vibrant democracy, our free and feisty press, the independence of our Judiciary (which often overrules the gov’t), and the protections afforded to the LGBT community and other minorities?
Progressive democracies all over the world have some citizens (and sometimes even clergy) who engage in racist remarks. But, that isn’t proof that such nations are devolving down the road to a violent tyrannical regime – only that some people, in every society, hold views which the majority will rightly find offensive.
But, that wasn’t even the most inflammatory thing you said. The most egregious example was when you exclaimed:
“The decree was an open declaration of war. It’s a strike against the soul of Judaism.”
Leaving your ‘declaration of war’ note aside, I’d really like to know how you can defend such an audacious passage. Judaism’s soul isn’t on trial anymore than Israel’s right to exist is open to debate.
Jews represent 2/10 of 1% of the population of the world, have one state to call our own, and I’m amazed at the continuing presence of those among us who actually feel we have to defend our right to exist, as a people and a nation. 65 years after the Holocaust, this shouldn’t even need stating, but, Mya, we, as a people, are not on trial!
I mean, I might cut you some slack if you held other religions, and other nations (especially, but not exclusively, Muslims and Arab regimes) to the same standard you hold us, but I’ve seen nothing indicating that you are an equal opportunity accuser.
If you haven’t already, I’d respectfully ask that you consider my closing passage in our original critique of your CiF piece:
“Many, from free and prosperous societies (typically in their youth), see the world as Mya Guarnieri does – hostage, in a perverse manner, by their own ideals – blinded (by the very sun which nurtured them) from the most fundamental truth about the political world: that there is an enormous moral difference between free, open democratic societies and closed totalitarian ones – and that the machinations of the latter aren’t located in Washington, D.C., Jerusalem, or London, but in Damascus, Tehran, Khartoum and Gaza City.”
“With age and experience, thankfully, many admirably disabuse themselves of such facile notions of the world, and come to understand the dark dangers, and delusions, of the moral and cultural relativism which fosters their Western masochism.”
Seriously, Mya, though not everything is black and white, the fact that you seem unable to understand the profound difference between free, democratic states, and closed, totalitarian ones should cause you great concern.
December 13, 2010 at 8:57 am
peterthehungarian
MTC
As opposed to a pseudo-humanist rightie whose knowledge about Israel is limited to Hebron and Yitzhar ?
Why? Are those Hebronite hooligans writing in the Guardian too?
December 13, 2010 at 9:17 am
MindTheCrap
Peter:
I will use a bigger font if it will help you.
I suppose you think that nobody’s opinion is worth anything except your own, because everyone else belongs to some little group that you can label and denigrate.
December 13, 2010 at 9:32 am
peterthehungarian
MTC
I suppose you think that nobody’s opinion is worth anything except your own, because everyone else belongs to some little group that you can label and denigrate.
Really? I should have use bigger fonts for you to understand a joke but don’t mind anyway..
Not everyone but Ms. Guarnieri certainly belongs to a “little group” as it could be seen very clearly by her public actions. And I agree with you I consider her opinion worth anything, and not because she doesn’t agree with me but because it is based of fact free hysterics and hate.
By the way I’m delighted that you know me so well.
December 13, 2010 at 9:50 am
MindTheCrap
I would reply if I could understand what point you are trying to make ….
December 13, 2010 at 9:59 am
JerusalemMite
MindTheCrap
I am not implying that ‘two wrongs make a right’ (my comments on your thread speak for themselves). However the Guardian obsession with such events in Israel compared with their nominal coverage (at best) of parallel stories in Britain lead many people to the obvious conclusion about the Guardian’s moral standards.
Actually ‘absence’ of moral standards.
December 13, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Mitnaged
“…words don’t mean anything if they don’t amount to action. ..”
Really? Are you so impatient (I could even say adolescent, but I know many cognitively mature adolescents) that you allow yourself to use words in ways which distort and bend the truth to get the action you wish for?
So much of what you have written on CiF is, I have to say, equivalent to the stuff I would award bare pass grade in a struggling sixth form student. And it IS the equivalent of junk food! When you mouth off others people’s arguments in hyperbolic fashion without “cooking” them first by reflecting on them you are feeding your readership the equivalent of a shop bought beefburger rather than one you cooked yourself from scratch.
To take that analogy further, the shop bought beefburger is likely to be full of additives (how many of your ideas and arguments are original?) whereas the home-made one is likely to be fuller in flavour because it has been prepared mindfully and all the ingredients are independently sourced.
As it is, in almost everything I have read by you, you lose the distinction between opinion and fact – indeed you write opinions as facts. You fail to support your arguments with viable and disinterested data, you do little or no research, and, worst of all you make it evident you are writing for effect rather than to initiate informed discussion. Again back to the analogy, shop bought beefburgers are sold mainly for effect.
You and CiF appear to be made for one another.
December 13, 2010 at 9:14 pm
AKUS
myaguarnieri
This is a classic mistake – to be opposed to the Guardian’s smears and vitriolic hatred and obsessive attempts to show Israel in a the worst possible light does not make one a member of the “right” or the “left”.
It makes one opposed to the Guardian and many of those who right for it. As it happens, several of those writing her frequently are or were kibbutznikim, and still hold what many would consider extreme left wing views. But we are not suicidal, and we are in dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
What constantly amazes me is why people like you (and Shabi, Freedman and others) stay in Israel since you seem to dislike it so much. Would you care to comment?
December 13, 2010 at 9:17 pm
AKUS
By the way:
http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-on-wrong-headed-rabbis.html
…..the rabbis’ letter has been condemned by the Rav Elyashiv, perhaps the most important living rabbi in the Haredi world, and by the Rav Yosef, the most important Sephardi rabbi and perhaps second only to the Rav Elyashiv. Now the condemnations are finally also beginning to come in from the National Religious camp, the religious home of the original signatories. Here’s an interview with the Rav Rafi Feuerstein.
December 13, 2010 at 9:23 pm
AKUS
Correctly the correction my spellchecker made while I wasn’t paying attention …
AKUS
i
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myaguarnieri
This is a classic mistake – to be opposed to the Guardian’s smears and vitriolic hatred and obsessive attempts to show Israel in a the worst possible light does not make one a member of the “right” or the “left”.
It makes one opposed to the Guardian and many of those who write for it. As it happens, several of those writing here frequently are or were kibbutznikim, and still hold what many would consider extreme left wing views. But we are not suicidal, and we are not dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
What constantly amazes me is why people like you (and Shabi, Freedman and others) stay in Israel since you seem to dislike it so much. Would you care to comment?
December 14, 2010 at 12:21 am
Gerald Kreeve
This is the way to criticise those rabbis, through responding to their chauvinism with the truth of Jewish law,through showing them the errors of their ways.
“The rabbis’ declaration constitutes a desecration of God’s name. It may also endanger Jews abroad. More than anything, it constitutes improper interpretation of the Torah. Those who wrote the document should go back to school rather than teach Jewish law in Israel.”
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3998603,00.html
December 14, 2010 at 1:19 am
andrew r
I’ve read all the comments in this thread and all I can think is, what have Braverman, Neeman, Rav Yosef, Rav Elyashiv, Rav Rafi and you guys been doing the last 110 years when the JNF had a policy of not selling/leasing land to gentiles, which is also applied by the state to ILA land even if it’s not owned by the JNF (i.e. 93% of the 1949 land). Now that some Rabbis are calling for an act of segregation that isn’t directly mandated by Israeli law, we realize how vile it is.
Has anyone’s head ever rolled over a segregationist policy? Did the politicians or rabbinate ever condemn the destruction of the unrecognized villages like al-Arakib? What were they saying about Adel Kaadan, who had to wage a 10 year legal battle just to live in Katzir, and even then the outcome applied to him and him only.* We might say the struggle for equality in Israel mirrors that of the USA, well and good, except that’s not what the outside world’s been hearing about Israel for the last 62.5 years.
* Some articles say the Supreme Court generally ruled against the JNF not selling land to non-Jews but according to Segev, Aharon Barak only demanded the govt. reconsider Kaadan’s case.
December 14, 2010 at 1:43 am
Germolene
I love it when antisemites who have no knowledge of local conditions get all their info from hate-sites and talk in such an intimate way about Israeli law & personalities, as if they gave a damn for them.
The Kaadan case was part of Uri Davis’s attack on JNF policy, using Fatah money to buy property in Katzir, which ended when Jews retaliated by attempting to buy houses in Umm El Fahm. As odd as it may seem to foreigners, people of different religions tend to live separately in the Middle East.