So now we have the latest take on the Midde East impasse in the print version of the Guardian, as well as on CiF, by Chris Patten, one time conservative cabinet minister, and EU commissioner.
Just to remind ourselves who Crass, oops, Chris Patten is :–
This piece, as noted by below the line commenter, TiredOldDog, can be summarised in a short sentence, “To assure world peace, the EU must make Israel surrender”.
Patten talks about the “morally appalling and politically self-defeating policy of Israel” etc etc.
As Patten is someone whose opinions carry weight in the corridors of power, I would draw his attention to the recent sequence of events which have brought us to where we are today. Let me clarify the situation for Chris Patten.
Israel unilaterally and unconditionally withdrew from Gaza in 2005, even disinterring Jewish dead from the cemetery there. All Israel asked for in return is to be left alone. Israel leaves behind infrastructure, such as homes etc, and in particular a lucrative greenhouse industry, paid for by generous US Jewish donors. These were trashed within days of the withdrawal. The withdrawal was greeted not by the Palestinians building up their infrastructure, but by terrorising Israeli civiians by raining down thousands of rockets on them, sent from Gaza. Meanwhile Israel continues to treat injured Gazans for free, evacuating them across the border to Israeli hospitals, including treating terrorists.
In 2007 Hamas takes control of Gaza in a brutal coup against the PA, in what is euphemistically described as a democratic election, in reality by threatening and terrorising those with whom they disagree with violence. Hamas controls all the hundreds of millions of dollars received in aid, as well as impounding many of the aid deliveries. Israel, meanwhile, allows across its border thousands of tons of suppies daily, including supplying Gaza with electricity, fuel etc. Gaza, meanwhile, is blockaded at Rafah on the Egyptian border.
Eventually, after years of escalating rocket and mortar attacks against Israel , ignored by the international community, Israel launches Operation Cast Lead, 2009.
During it, Hamas broke all the laws of warfare, both by targeting civilians and by using Gazans as human shields, as well as fighting often in civilian dress.
Indeed, Colonel Richard Kemp, who was British Commander of troops in Afghanistan in 2003, and senior advisor to British Intelligence said of the IDF —”the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare”.
Compounded with all that, Hamas in common with the PA, and Jordan and Egypt, poisons young childrens’ minds in schools by daily pumping out hate against Jews, and against the Jewish state. Hamas even runs training summer camps in the holidays for young children, training them with guns and dressing them up as suicide bombers. Hamas declares in its Charter that its goal is the elimination of the Jewish state.
So, Mr. Patten, what don’t you understand?
Considering that Europe, far from showing courage in saving European Jewry 70 years ago, colluded in its destruction, you now are asking for it to “show courage” to destroy the only Jewish state.
Why don’t YOU show courage and demand that Hamas follows the norms of civilised behaviour, including allowing the Red Cross access to Gilad Shallit.
But that’s too hard—- much easier to constantly lay the blame at Israel’s door.
For some of the commenters, Patten did not go far enough in his condemnation of Israel, and here we have a sample of the usual hatemongers on CiF:-
I give the last word in Israel’s defence to Pulcinella:-









57 comments
Comments feed for this article
June 17, 2010 at 1:20 am
telavivit
UNITED:
June 17, 2010 at 3:52 am
Silke
“To assure world peace, the EU must make Israel surrender”.
in an only slightly roundabout way this is what Walter Russell Mead demands in this piece also. Remember WRM was recently lauded (rightfully) as having written as a great friend of Israel. But now look at this
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/06/15/turkey-still-needs-the-west/ – Turkey Still Needs The West –
Turkey praising its jihadist IHH export isn’t even mentioned while Israel, well, Israel gets what Israel gets:
“The misguided Israeli response to the Turkish ‘aid flotilla’ understandably inflamed Turkish nationalist opinion”
In an earlier post he had identified Palestinians as suffering 4 times compared with Israelis 0 (zero) times
- and in a still earlier post he confessed that Mr. chief negotiator Erekat was “one of the most engaging human beings I have ever seen,”
June 17, 2010 at 3:58 am
Fairplay
Chris Patten is yet another failed diplomat trying to get back to the political scene cynically using a ‘popular’ cause as a vehicle. He says nothing useful at all but it makes him feel good and it costs him nothing to do so ( he even gets paid some pocket-money ).
Rule #1 on the Guardian: If you have nothing new to say, try kicking Israel and we will pay you for it.
June 17, 2010 at 4:13 am
benorr
The palestinians have managed to demonize Israel,by playing the underdog card,something that they do very well.Just as there are those that hate us there are just as many that do like us.We have allowed those that hate us to take the upper hand,and run with it.
To the extent that our supporters are too intimidated to support us in public,this has to change,If we are to win this media war,we have to adopt every single dirty trick that our enemies use against us,and some.
There are millions,a silent majority, in the US and around the globe that would gladly support us.We need to wake them up and show them how to help us.
June 17, 2010 at 6:52 am
AKUS
Of course, an example of perfect chutzpah that appeared the same day as the Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday was this article written by a flack for the Arabs, Chris Doyle of CAABU:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/16/israel-gaza-flotilla-inquiry
An inquiry by an purely British team into another inquiry by a purely British team is just fine – but an inquiry by Israel with two international observers is not!!!
And Turkey plans to have it own “impartial” inquiry, to the cheers of its friends at the UNHRC.
At least Doyle’s article drew down a few sarcastic rejoinders by some whose brains are not permanently in reverse gear – e.g.:
franzbiberkopf
16 Jun 2010, 1:49PM
wait what?
was the saville inquiry international and independent?
yeah i thought not.
June 17, 2010 at 7:05 am
Yohoho
Why stop at allowed Red Cross access to Gilad Shalit, Tosca? I for one wouldn’t trust the Red Cross’ impartiality given its own sniping at Israel.
Why not a concerted EU campaign to put pressure on Hamas to free him?
Or don’t they know where he is?
June 17, 2010 at 7:12 am
Silke
Yohoho
don’t miss Walter Russell Mead’s latest I have linked to above and get afraid
- if he, as I suspect, outlines the policy of the White House, then Europeans will follow and to add my very personal whine to it, even I in my sleepy little corner of Europe will end my life in the same place it started in, i.e. an air raid shelter or whatever will replace it in these times.
June 17, 2010 at 9:27 am
benorr
WE are dealing here with moral midgets.Does the Guardian get paid for posting these anti-Israeli articles.I have this feeling that they do.
The zeal and enthusiasm that they apply themselves to this deluge of anti-Israeli articles is down right sick.
And most probably extremely profitable
June 17, 2010 at 9:31 am
benorr
Our little bald Israel lover MartinInEurope,is back to his brown-nosing self.He was quite busy with his anti-Israel posts.
June 17, 2010 at 10:40 am
Heres to Davy.
Tosca
”the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare”.
The guy is suffering from PTSD. Hundreds and hundreds of avoidable deaths ???? A disgusting and risible comment.
June 17, 2010 at 10:59 am
ItsikDeWembley
Someone raised the Irish problems being equated to Israel’s.
i found this today on the BBC and found it near impossible that this world view was not shaped by personal feelings, which in Israel’s – Ireland’s case were shaped by religion and probably racism.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10294057.stm
June 17, 2010 at 11:01 am
Silke
benorr
“Does the Guardian get paid for posting these anti-Israeli articles.I have this feeling that they do.”
you may be on to something there:
not so long ago London prided itself on being the true Arab capital of the world – maybe that has died down due to Ken Livingstone being gone or it is due to the “crisis”
June 17, 2010 at 11:09 am
ItsikDeWembley
HTD:
“”the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare”.
The guy is suffering from PTSD. Hundreds and hundreds of avoidable deaths ???? A disgusting and risible comment.”
I believe you need to hear him before knoking him down.
Are you familliar with the area, the cities, the roads, the missions, the execution of plans?
He is.
Are you?
No, you are just familliar with the outcome, which statisticaly is above normal for civillian damage considering the amount of fire power used and the densly populated cities.
Whether or not it was a just operation is another question.
Hamas seemed to think it was since they not only insisted upon it but also believe they “won”…
June 17, 2010 at 11:22 am
Silke
Davy
that is where the fun ends
a despicable little distorter of truths should keep his dirty mouth shut when it comes to the plight and the dangers soldiers have to endure in action generally and in urban warfare specifically.
go and salivate by reading your ignorant pontificating getting out in time when the going gets rough reporters who afterwards write whatever their fancy tells them to write and what they think will sell.
Mean spirited evil slandering cowards have no right to pass judgment on any of the guys I listen to telling their story. I wish every one of them would get a chance to go after you with a horse whip and take his revenge, but probably they would be to a man and a woman be to decent for even that little fun.
June 17, 2010 at 11:58 am
peterthehungarian
A disgusting and risible comment.
Says so Berchmans this disgrace of a human excrement who posted a sexually oriented joke about a child victim of the Holocaust.
June 17, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Silke
peter
LOL
but may I suggest cat excrement
nothing ever has surpassed to this day having had to clean my dog after a roll in cat sh.t
June 17, 2010 at 12:14 pm
peterthehungarian
Hi Silke
The substance has importance, the origin is irrelevant.
June 17, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Silke
peter
LOL again
could we agree on the colour being the most important of the important?
fortunately to this day brown is for a lot of us to this day a dirty word, just brown nothing else
June 17, 2010 at 12:40 pm
peterthehungarian
Silke
Your idea regarding the whipping of Berchmans is a mistake. He would enjoy it and fantasize about being among his beloved peaceloving and gentle Muslim friends – in most Muslim countries whipping a convicted person is an accepted and lawful form of punishment.
June 17, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Silke
Peter
you are right of course
now how do I atone for that
- let me think
we once had an apprentice hiding a wee bit of Butter Acid in the office – no idea what the correct English name for that is – but the stuff was so potent and the source so small that we searched for hours while several very nice people succumbed to painful bouts of wretching
Maybe if we all combined our brain power we could project a tiny cotton ball soaked in that stuff somewhere under the Wall Paper in lill’ Davy’s preferred room?
June 17, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Heres to Davy.
ItsikDeWembley
” the outcome, which statisticaly is above normal for civillian damage considering the amount of fire power used and the densly populated cities. ”
A point I make continually is that the IDF has been able to operate within the shadow of Falujah and Grozny.
I know its only Ha aretz …but they claim the IDF prevented medical teams from reaching wounded Palestinians by shooting at them. I will give you that compared to many armies they are much much better… but the idea that they are somehow especially honourable …I simply have not seen the evidence
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/time-to-believe-gaza-war-crimes-allegations-1.272741
peterthehungarian
” the whipping of Berchmans is a mistake. He would enjoy it ”
I suppose I should be flattered that you have to continue with your low grade sexist remarks in order to discredit me.
I am not that difficult to defeat in argument…many do it…Israeli nurse…Shactman…TtsikDeWembley…have all taken the wind from my sails…and they did it without prurience. If you can manage a whole post without being disgusting…you should try it.
June 17, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Silke
Heres to Davy
“I simply have not seen the evidence”
Davy you see only evidence that smells brown or you smell only evidence that looks brown – take your pick
- I have heard that excessive drinking limits the ability to smell – a pity that in your case the remaining ability is of such a dreary colour and foul smell (one hint it’s not chocolate)
“I am not that difficult to defeat in argument”
you don’t get it – as always
- there are people who aren’t worth to be argued with
consider yourself lucky and honoured that I consider you still good enough to provide me with a practicing target.
June 17, 2010 at 1:26 pm
peterthehungarian
Berchmans
Describing you objectively is an extremely disgusting task but someone must do it. Without informing the public about your delicate sense of humor maybe someone would confuse you with a human.
I suppose I should be flattered that you have to continue with your low grade sexist remarks in order to discredit me.
You posted a joke about your willingness to “giving a blast” to Anne Frank.
Then later you threatened an other poster to “bonk” her in front of her friends.
And I’m a sexist…. Fantastic.
Don’t worry Berchmans I don’t need to intervene at all – you discredited yourself a long time ago with your pathological lies, antisemitism and ignorance.
June 17, 2010 at 1:29 pm
THH
From Amira Hass
Maybe most Israelis “know” Palestinians lie , because they lied in so many occasions till now .
June 17, 2010 at 1:32 pm
ItsikDeWembley
b : “… but the idea that they are somehow especially honourable …”
Just drop the word especially and it will be enough.
Considering that these guys live in a country that about 15 percent of its people hate them and have to daily police an equivalent number of people. Add to this the majority of neighbouring countries’ people and leaders and you get a picture.
Add to this the daily abuse you get, the bad press, the lies of people you actualy try to assist and protect and you just about begin gets frustration.
Take all of the above into effect I’d say they do a pretty good damn job.
BTW, most western countries hold their troops as “the best”.
It’s enough hearing the Brits saying their soldiers are the most proffessional army in the world.
Which I believe they are among, but than you get Mr Mussa’s case.
And the ones being drowned in Iraq.
you see, when people are being asked to impossible things some of them fail.
What is you solution than?
Cave in and hope for the best?
hope not to be thrown from buiildings like the Fatah’ opposion members in Gaza?
Or just head for countries you never been to because someone from youur family came from there?
Providing they’ll accept you of course.
Imagine what the BNP will say?
See what happened after 100000 poles came over 9not to mention most went back), the system went crushing down, and it still is.
And don’t tell me you get a GP appt easily.
Must be the only B in the village…
Give us a solution.
I dare you.
June 17, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Politically incorrect
THH the truth is as you and I and every other Israel knows – Palestinians lie at the drop of a hat. Palestinians lie and lie and lie and lie.
They think we’re fools because we tell the truth.
June 17, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Silke
Peter
I don’t know what it is today but you are hitting my giggling nerve again and again
“Describing you objectively is an extremely disgusting task but someone must do it”
the way you succumb to sacrifice here is just wonderfully worded – my inner eye immediately pictured you with rubber gloves holding something as far away as possible in a two finger pinch.
June 17, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Silke
Itsik
“Take all of the above into effect I’d say they do a pretty good damn job.”
thank you, THAT can’t be stated often enough – in fact it needs to be said again and again being the one statement that exposes the screamers as the idiots they are
June 17, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Silke
Peter
OT
- but I think I remember that you are in Israel and a friend send me this beautiful picture
- he says it is a pub or whatever in Tel Aviv where the fans of Bayern München meet to watch their club’s games (I know next to nothing about football but Bayern München is said to have been founded by Jews and to have behaved a lot better than others during the brown Reich.)
http://rundeablage.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/fcb-israel.jpg
June 17, 2010 at 2:10 pm
peterthehungarian
Silke
the way you succumb to sacrifice here is just wonderfully worded – my inner eye immediately pictured you with rubber gloves holding something as far away as possible in a two finger pinch.
No Silke, my gloves are off since his joke about Anne Frank.
but I think I remember that you are in Israel and a friend send me this beautiful picture
I’m a village hick living about180 km from Tel-Aviv in a small town on the northern border in the Western Galilee, and have very limited knowledge of the “never sleeping city”. I must confess that Bauhaus is not my favorite style, and Tel-Aviv is the most concentrated version of it.
June 17, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Heres to Davy.
Peter the Vulgarian
Remind me…when did I say that…and what did the 30 posts before it say?
.
Politically incorrect
” – Palestinians lie at the drop of a hat. Palestinians lie and lie and lie and lie. ”
I have often considered that stereotyping Muslims as liars is a good argument …one that should be used more often. To be varied with ” they are dishonourable liars ” … they are fixated liars..” they are violent liars …anti Semitic liars etc etc
CIFWatch is by far the best site for exposing some kinds of discrimination.
.
ItsikDeWembley
“Considering that these guys live in a country that about 15 percent of its people hate them ”
Return to the 67 lines and they will be hated a lot less.
June 17, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Silke
Itsik
don’t listen to Davy being stupid – return to 67 line and Kumbaya singing will be all over – only complete nutters can claim that
Peter
as to country living I am a city gal who can’t stand living in a city
- My moving away as far as possible was only limited by the availability of a reasonably fast internet access – the internet being a reading gals ides of paradise
you know when I first saw the Athen’s Acropolis in real life after having had Homer given to me as a very early in life kid’s book it did something to me just as much as does reading Galilee being typed as a real place in real life whenever I come across it these days (I got acquainted with the bible only after Homer)
- not being religious this emotional reaction to Galilee in me seems a bit strange but maybe I had a teacher who was a good story teller and thus made it such a special word for me
- I don’t try to word the good wishes to you I just send them – take good care of Galilee.
June 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm
peterthehungarian
Brochmans
Remind me…when did I say that…and what did the 30 posts before it say?
I don’t need to remind you asshole, you know it already as you yourself told here.
————————————————————————————————–
June 1, 2010 at 5:17 am
Heres to Davy.
8 Votes
HairShirt
“You know what I mean, giving Anne Frank a blast and all that…”
Is that it ? A partial quote from 4 years ago? Thats your attack? You take it easy my friend. BTW Parisa is back on CIF … it was to her the post was originally addressed. She looks great. I told her.
—————————————————————————————————
and here
—————————————————————————————————
May 7, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Heres to Davy
Yohoho
“Have your forgotten giving Ann Frank a blast”
I just saw 2 and a half men. The ( Jewish ) star Jon Cryer said he was pleased he did nt know where she was hidden he was so easy to outsmart he would have told. This is a way way worse thing than I said…and 2 and a half men is Americas no.1 show.
Peter had warped it into a sexual allegation.
—————————————————————————————————
If you don’t remember then what is your question regarding the previous 30 posts? You remember the previous posts but forgot about yours? And anyway what to do with the previous xx posts have to do with your abomination?!
Berchmans you did the mission impossible and proved that you are more gormless and has less integrity what I thoght previously.
June 17, 2010 at 2:34 pm
peterthehungarian
Thanks Silke
I am a Galilee freak, you can’t make the slightest move here without bumping your head in the history of Judaism and Christianity.
June 17, 2010 at 5:10 pm
ItsikDeWembley
HTD: “…considered that stereotyping Muslims …”
Who’s steretyping Muslims?
Palestinians comes in many religions.
There used to be Jewish ones you know.
wonder what happened to them…
for some reason Anne Frank’s fate springs to mind; You know the one that actualy means massacre…
June 17, 2010 at 5:16 pm
ItsikDeWembley
HTD:
““Considering that these guys live in a country that about 15 percent of its people hate them ”
Return to the 67 lines and they will be hated a lot less.”
The 15 percent are a rough estimate of the people hating the IDF within the Israeli population.
Adding the WB and Gaza population will be closer to 40.
For some reason a major survey conducted in Sharon’s time about exchanging Wadi Ara for Gush etzion territory like per like resulted in a majority of the Arab population of Wadi ara voting against such a move because they do not want to lose their Israeli nationality and be governed by… Well, Palestinian Arabs.
Now why is this you reckon?
I think someone didn’t learn their lesson in 1947 and still wants to eat the pie and leave it whole.
I apreciate your effort in devising a solution.
Do continue.
June 17, 2010 at 6:03 pm
ItsikDeWembley
Silke,
I come from a little kibbutz underneath the golan hights in the upper galilee.
On Fridays in summer when everyone used to get ready for their Shabbat meal at 19:00 I used to sit on a bomb shelter over viewing the Naphtali mountains just accross the valley.
You can see Metula and Manara and Kfar Giladi and Lebanon mountains.
When the sun starts setting the mountain turns purple and the Quary turn pink.
You can almost hear your thoughts outloud in such peace.
You can see the many land marks there that were left behind.
The crusaders castle looming above and minerats in the distence.
You can just about see a Druze girl’s school called Nebi yahud (how ironic – it means Jewish prophit in arabic) and the city of Kiryat Shemona.
And if you climb up the Golan ridge you can see the city we never left behind. The only people that never left their land are us.
The city is Safed. Where sadly the following occuered:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Safed_massacre
It led to a shamble of an enquiery (not an international one by a British one…
Some of the residents of Safed who didn’t want to place their fate in the almighty, and saw the British rule as failing them simply had enough.
Can you blame them? I mean 18 – 20 Jews dead, 80 wounded and the main Jewish street was looted and burned (and this is just Safed) for no fault of their own.
Hell, if it wasn’t for similar actions (defending yourself) taken by the ZZW and ZOB the Polish residence might not gather momentom in WW2.
It is known that Polish AK and GL units assisted them and via the attacks the resistence gathered momentom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
Any way, that’s a different matter altogether.
Still waiting for Berchmans detailed peace agreement we should all sign on.
And it seems someone is waiting for a praise song to the IDF.
Better take my number (do you think i can cheat like Mr. Bean did in the hospital appt?).
June 17, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Silke
Itsik
thank you you made me well up – rocks changing colour how can you do that to me – what is Quary?
I’ll check on your links tomorrow and after that I’ll pester you (and peter) on and on to tell me more – I still can’t remember what it was that turned Galilee into a magic word for me, I didn’t like it how we were told about Jesus in school (it had something cloying) so it must have been something else but something must have been there because the word always gives me a little jolt when I stumble upon it today.
… before I’m off to bed just one more remark whenever somebody complained about the treatment at check points I said (when I could) what do you expect, it is boring it is hot or cold or raining and it is life threatening – a mixture that very very few humans are able to endure with a smile.
as to what you said about the IDF my first thought was “they should do something like the Pritzker Military Library is doing with the US Medal of Honour recipients”
- they take them on stage and let them tell their stories helped along by a very good interviewer but sometimes (I don’t watch I only listen) you can hear such an old guy’s voice crack just a little and then one wants to run out and hug them and comfort them. I think the way they do it is very good for making people side with soldiers – I guess one can’t transfer that one on one to Israel but how about milking ideas from it?
http://itunes.apple.com/de/podcast/pritzker-military-library/id118681118
June 17, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Silke
Itsik
just remembered one more thing
- years ago when I read in a book by Hanna Krall (?) that when the SS or German soldiers opened a trap door leading into a cellar (they were very common for storing stuff before the age of the refrigerator) they were met by Jews with guns and I realized that I didn’t find that entirely normal so like so many times before my Weltbild needed adjusting. And mind you that was decades after 67 when Moshe Dayan became a heartthrob for lots of us and the IDF the model for how soldiers could and should look like.
June 17, 2010 at 6:54 pm
cityca
Chris Patten used to work for the EU, doling out money to Arafat for his people.
When it became apparent that the money given to Arafat for, among other things, school books was being spent on school books that no children should read, i.e. full of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel hate, someone said to Patten can’t you get them to stop this. His answer? What is your problem? Or words very much to that effect.
So he wouldn’t step in when he was sponsoring hate against Jews and today, he wants Israel to be made to surrender. As someone who knows the area, presumably he knows what would happen were Israel to surrender.
Old fashioned, British establishment racism. Bet he gets on famously with the editors of the Guardian and the Oldie (Richard Ingrams). All out of the same class and type.
June 18, 2010 at 4:21 am
ItsikDeWembley
Silk,
Sorry meant to type quarry.
Where you dig for gravel.
Kfar Giladi has a big one.
Strangly enough it is minutes walk from where Trumpeldor was killed.
June 18, 2010 at 4:27 am
ItsikDeWembley
BTW,
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3907075,00.html
This in itself is worthy of a story by the Guardian.
Does anyone know if it appeared anywhere in the Liberal paper?
June 18, 2010 at 4:53 am
epidermoid
“Return to the 67 lines and they will be hated a lot less.”
Its no good repeating a falsehood in the expectation that there will come time when its errors are translated into truth. It is unwise to assume that your enemy thinks in the same way as you do, for that ignores the influences of culture and religion that exert powerful forces on men’s behaviour. Just as we studied the thinking of the Japanese to gain an advantage, so we study the Arabs when they threaten us. A return to the 67 lines would be seen as a triumph against the Jews, ordained from above to allow the faithful greater proximity to Israel, and make it easier for the rockets and invading forces. For you to deny this, is not an expression of opinion to which you are entitled, but offensive, for it implies that the essence of Jewish anxiety about their neighbours has little foundation. It is also offensive to the Palestinians, who you reduce to men of no substance, whose ideas have no value except as interpreted by you. A form of orientalism and a suggestion of racism.
June 18, 2010 at 5:04 am
ItsikDeWembley
This is from the link above:
“…This is not the first time Apfel has expressed his harsh feeling toward Israel, and the need to cut ties with it. On NPS’ official website, the former neo-Nazi published his reaction to the recent flotilla incident, saying: “Today’s attack, with at least 10 fatalities, demonstrates a new ‘characteristic’ of ‘state terror’ employed by Israel.
“Since the establishment of the state in 1948 and the expulsion of millions of Palestinians – the history of Israel has been accompanied by bloodshed…”
This is coming from a former Neo Nazi. this is rich. State terror. Expelling millions.
Amazing.
What’s next, send the Jews home?
Hang on, Mr. Apfel, you booted them out, didn’t you? Now you want them back?
Is it football practice that you need?
Keeping with Germany it is interesting to read the following:
http://www.open.salon.com/blog/lost_in_berlin/2010/06/14/of_soccer_world_cups_and_inner_nuremberg_rallies
And:
http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/16/world-cup-german-striker%E2%80%99s-inner-nazi-party-rally/
Perhaps a German neutral person can shed some light on their feelings of German language being used that arrived directly from the 1930′s and remained in use.
I don’t find the comment insulting but my father might very well do.
He used to sing over the German national anthem using the words:
“Deutschland, Deutschland unter alles,
Unter alles in der Welt”
I didn’t find it funny but I suppose being in his 70′s and being able to have a go at the nation that took away his childhood meant something to him.
At least he went away to West and East Germany in the 80′s and actualy had a good time visiting my aunt.
When I ask him about our family he doesn’t talk about my German grandma only about my Czech grandfather.
Which funny enough in the Czechoslovakia 1920 establishment my grandfather voted himself as German while my Grandparents (from Hungary) saw themselves as Czechs.
June 18, 2010 at 5:59 am
Fairplay
epidermoid
Thanks for restoring a bit of seriousness to a thread that has veered from scorn, ridicule to sentimentality ( not that I’m against sentimentality per se;
I loved Itsik’s poetic description of the Galil ).
Your comment at 4:53 is 100% correct.
On the other hand, it’s no good repeating a truth in the expectation that there will come time when it’s translated into reality – unless we devise a plan of action. However much pleasure or schadenfreude we get from repeating our self-evident truths on CiFWatch, it may not ultimately bring us any nearer to ending antisemitism or an Israeli-Palestinian peace.
Not to mention how the West should defuse the Iranian nuclear bomb ticking dangerously away while we amuse ourselves mocking Berchmans.
June 18, 2010 at 6:18 am
peterthehungarian
Fairplay
If you think that I’m “mocking” Berchmans then you are mistaken. My purpose to show the readers of this blog the true face of a typical “pro-Palestinian” (only sarcasm) activist. His moral, his intellect, his antisemitism, his hypocrisy, his ignorance and the depth of his hate of anything decent, true and logical.
Luckily he is cooperating well. Presenting his true personality to the readers is only a small but important part of the fight for ending anti-semitism and Israel’s delegitimization by European Islamofascists.
June 18, 2010 at 7:19 am
Silke
Itsik
let me try on the Nuremberg/Nazi rally item and hopefully not get “sentimental”;)
I remember “innerer Reichsparteitag” of course only from after WW2 and probably from earliest days on as mostly used as a metaphor for somebody showing exuberant/exaggerated joy and as being applied both approvingly or disapprovingly. From German media I gather that it is still in debate, when it first came into being, best guesses seem to be it originated either with comedians before or after WW2 or with the inventiveness of ordinary Berliners.
I decided to not use it most likely already while still in school and getting acquainted with what we did to Anne Frank (even though it wasn’t talked about at the time today I guess I was very lucky in that some of my teachers in high-school seem to have been re-migrated Jews)
That said my current stance on the subject is, if somebody uses the term he/she should do so only as a quote – i.e. if she had said soandso would have called that an “innerer Reichsparteitag” and the quotee would have been an untainted voice it might have been OK. T
he way she is said to have used it makes me assume that in her circle or family or whatever doubtful language use is OK. I know that I sound like an enemy of freedom of expression but I am German and I think on the whole our language policing habit is acting in the true spirit of necessary ongoing re-education.
June 18, 2010 at 7:25 am
Silke
Itsik
one more:
I think Deutschland unter alles more than a bit funny
sadly we have managed to destroy the hope von Fallersleben meant to express in that line so thoroughly that I want to hope that he himself would have been the first to praise your father.
June 18, 2010 at 7:29 am
Fairplay
silke and peterthehun
I love your contributions too much. That’s partly why I can’t stay away from CiFWatch…
Shabbat shalom and have a nice weekend !
June 18, 2010 at 9:33 am
Heres to Davy.
epidermoid
.
” A return to the 67 lines.. offensive to the Palestinians, .. A form of orientalism and a suggestion of racism.”
Hilarious…well timed…well delivered and very funny.