Some people are never happy unless Jews are centre stage, preferably when the spotlight shows them in a less than flattering light.
And so we were treated to a new theory by one of the Guardian’s CiF newer in-house Jews, Rosa Freedman, (any relation to the anti-Israel Seth?), to demonstrate that in matters of child sex abuse, the ultra orthodox Jewish community is no better than the Catholic church, and in its treatment of sex offenders within its ranks, goes to all lengths to cover up these crimes and to ensure that the victims are silenced, whilst the perpetrators are protected.
In other words, why give all the attention to the Catholics, when exactly the same situation obtains in the Jewish community, albeit in the ultra orthodox wing?
To support her assertions, she invoked a little-known Talmudic law, mesira, which forbade a Jew from reporting another Jew to the gentile authorities, which she goes on to expain, correctly in this instance, that this law was formulated at a time when courts of gentile governments were staffed by antisemites, who looked for any excuse to find against a Jew. She would have us believe that today’s leaders of these communities still use mesira as a way of keeping a tight grip on them, and then goes on to say that as in the Catholic church, “things are starting to change in the ultra-orthodox world.Top rabbis, such as Rav Elyashiv, have come out in support of reporting abuse to the police. Clearly, the ultra- orthodox word is learning from the Catholic church’s experience, and listening to the victims”. Thus she displays her monumental ignorance, in that she thinks that an intellectual giant of the calibre of Rav Elyashiv, held in the highest regard by diverse Jewish communities worldwide, would play follow my leader to the Catholic church.
Of course, the glaring omission in her piece is any support of her theory by way of statistics or reference sources.
Indeed, below the line Jubilation 1 asked “Do you have any statistics for haredim as against the others? This is the second article published in comment is free without statistics and without stating reference sources.”
To which she responded:-
We’re still waiting!
The truth of the matter is that in all communities, secular or religious, across different creeds and religions, there are and always will be instances of sexual abuse, where the powerful prey on the vulnerable, sadly.
Ms.Freedman provides no evidence whatsoever that the scale of sexual abuse in the haredi world in any way mirrors that in the Catholic church, or that it is tolerated, let alone covered, up by those in authority.
The scandal in the Catholic church is that the protection of the abusers, and the facilitiation of these priests to continue their nefarious activities in other locations for years, once their guilt was discovered, went to the very top. The head of the Catholic church in Ireland admitted as much, and the Pope himself held that it was not in the interest of the church that these crimes should be made public.
Sexual abuse of minors by priests is endemic in this institution.
Let the commenter, Santa Moniker, give the final verdict on this shoddy piece of sensationalism:-








32 comments
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May 13, 2010 at 3:01 am
Arabella Meller
I believe that Rosa and Seth are brother and sister. The resemblance is plain to see.
May 13, 2010 at 3:56 am
peterthehungarian
Hi Arabella
I believe that Rosa and Seth are brother and sister. The resemblance is plain to see.
If I remeber well Rosa Freedman authored some articles and/or posts on CIF under the name Rosa Davis.
She wrote pseudo-intellectual crap then and does the same now.
May 13, 2010 at 4:25 am
FoolMeOnce
I’m sorry, but I think this is a constructive article, although I can see why publishing it in forum such as CiF might seem a little extraneous or suspicious.
Comparing to the vast child abuse in the Catholic church also seems shallow and improper, as it is obvious that the sexual repression in the Catholic church and the consequences of it are unparalleled.
But there is a disturbing inclination to leave things “inside the community” in the Haredi world that doesn’t always settle with state laws and norms.
May 13, 2010 at 5:24 am
The Truth
Seth and Rosa are indeed siblings.
May 13, 2010 at 5:40 am
MindTheCrap
Here are some relevant articles regarding the same problem in the USA:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2008/11/getting-haredi.html
May 13, 2010 at 6:33 am
pretzelberg
What beguiles me about CIF is the choice of contributors. I seem to remember this Rosa being a law student and once posting a piece about some legal issue or other. Nowt wrong with that – although it does seem strange that Seth’s sister and cousin (neither of whom seem the sharpest pencils in the box) were invited to contribute.
But why get Rosa to do an article on such a sensitive issue?
May 13, 2010 at 7:11 am
MindTheCrap
Religions without celibacy will never have the problem of child abuse to the same extent as religions with celibacy. But to pretend the problem doesn’t exist is a moral dead end.
May 13, 2010 at 7:37 am
Yohoho
Rosa Freedman has as good a grasp of law as I have of how to do brain surgery. Her articles, where she tries to “lawyer” are proof positive of that.
I don’t believe in determinism or that intellectual challenge is necessarily hereditary, but she and her brother really make me wonder sometimes.
May 13, 2010 at 7:54 am
MindTheCrap
I agree with “Fool Me Once”. There is nothing inaccurate, exaggerated or hateful in this article and its focus on the gradually changing attitudes within the Orthodox communities is positive. The author’s relationship to Seth Freedman are totally irrelevant to both the subject of the article and its contents.
An interesting point in the NYTimes article is how the internet has increased awareness amongst haredi parents. Is it any wonders that the rabbis are fighting a battle to keep the internet out of haredi homes?
May 13, 2010 at 8:01 am
Yohoho
MindTheCrap, one question – why do you think she has chosen to publish it on CiF?
Regardless of the truth or otherwise of what she argues, how can you know that her relationship with Seth Freedman hasn’t given her a shoe-in to write whatever rubbish she chooses, provided it can feed the Jew-/Israel-hating beast below the line (and remember that many of those don’t care to distinguish between Israelis and Jews)?
May 13, 2010 at 9:13 am
MindTheCrap
Yohoho:
I would agree with you if I thought that child molestation was of secondary importance to my opinion on the Guardian/CiF, which you are probably aware of. But it isn’t and so I can only examine this particular article on its merits. Assume that it was written by someone else and appeared in a more respectable newspaper: would you have any criticism ?
May 13, 2010 at 10:38 am
Bluesea
“I believe that Rosa and Seth are brother and sister. The resemblance is plain to see.”
I have a somewhat different theory. Rosa is actually Seth …in drag.
May 13, 2010 at 10:54 am
Bluesea
Sethele, Sethele, vilts essen an appale.?
May 13, 2010 at 11:00 am
Heres to Davy.
Tosca
“the Guardian’s CiF newer in-house Jews, ”
This is a site for spotting anti Semitism yet an article is defining writers in terms of their Jewish religion. Irony was thought to have been deceased but it was brought back to life.. spluttering.. on CIFWatch.
May 13, 2010 at 11:44 am
Bluesea
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree
Comment is free Cif America Cif belief liberty central Cif Middle East Cif green Video Contributors About us
=========================================================================
To see how biased they really are, look no further than the front page.
Only two geographical regions [ America and Mideast] have separate folders. There is no comparable folder on Asian/Pacific affairs [ while billions live there] or Europe [ close by] or Africa [ nothing good to report whatsoever] so on and so forth.
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand CiF’s underlying premises. The Mideast folder’s raison d’etre is to constantly badmouth the Jewish state and whitewash what the Arabs do. Even the pretense of evenhandedness has eroded lately.
May 13, 2010 at 12:02 pm
zoidberg
bluesea- yeah, there is a naming crisis at cif also.
cif america should be re-titled ‘cif usa’, as it ignores all other nations on that continent (except for a bit of chavez fluffing every now and again). all it does is blow the u.s. democrats and denigrate the republicans.
and cif middle east should be re-titled ‘cif israel’, as there’s at least a thread a day on the smallest strip of land in the region, whilst the minorities in most countries of the region get a tough time…except the syrian kurds of course because, like gays in iran, ‘there aren’t any’….but those issues are not deemed worthy of articles.
May 13, 2010 at 12:53 pm
smtx01
@davy ‘the guardians cif newer in house Jews’
You seem upset by the term ‘House Jew’, The term ‘House’ is used by more ethnic minorities than you acknoweldge, actually, id like to see you up against an angry rapper
May 13, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Heres to Davy.
smtx01
“You seem upset by the term ‘House Jew’, ”
I just like to point out people’s discriminations…in this case people who are disturbed when Jewish folk have the bottle and political strength to overcome the blanket of propaganda that has been the hallmark of post 67 Israel. The lengths to which they go in order to denigrate critics shows how vulnerable the position of the Israelis is.
67 lines and some water.
May 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Tosca
MindTheCrap.
“There is nothing inaccurate, exaggerated or hateful in this artice”
How do you know?
In order to make such a statement you would presumably have detailed knowledge of the incidence of sexual abuse in the haredi community, statistics etc.— something that Ms. Freedman, by her own inadvertant admission, was singularly lacking.
The point of my rebuttal of Freedman’s article was not to deny that such abuse exists, but to counter her spurious claims that it is comparable in scale to that in the Catholic church, and to the institutionalised cover up that accompanies it, to allow the priests the freedom to indulge their sexual appetites.
So where is her evidence, or yours for that matter?
One could further question the motives of the authoress, because it is telling that she did not include in her field of enquiry the Muslim community—- far larger than the haredi one, and where there is considerabe abuse of their young when they refuse to bow to pressure in the matter of arranged marriages, and the subsequent exclusion and sometimes honour killings that are often the consequence.
Don’t you think that CiF would refuse to publish such a piece , even if she were minded to write one?
The fact is that nothing quite “does it” like having a go at the Jews in print, and this article will have burnished her image with the Guardianistas.
And how can one take seriously the authoress of an article which proposes that male circumcision is no different from female genital mutilation, and that it is only allowed because one culltural group is favoured above others? (CiF October 2009)?
May 13, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Bluesea
zoidberg, you hit the nail on the head.
May 13, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Bluesea
Boycott CiF. Don’t give the bastards an inch. I say let ‘em stew in their own juice for a while.
May 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm
MindTheCrap
Tosca:
What is your point ? Jewish paedophiles are OK because Muslim genital mutilation was not mentioned in the same article ? Grow up. If you don’t think that there is a cover-up of what goes on in the Orthodox Jewish community then you are extremely naive.
This has to be the worst article ever published on CiFWatch.
May 13, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Tosca
MindTheCrap.
Your comprehension skills are seriously wanting.
Where have I said that Jewish paedophiles are OK, or that that there is no abuse in the orthodox community or that where it exists it isn’t covered up?
This is my point:- That to write an article about sex abuse singling out just one community out of many, namely the ultra orthodox Jewish community, on an influential website known for its anti- Jewish prejudice and bigotry, and without any statistics or reference sources to back it up, is, to invite legitimate questions as to the motives of the author.
To repeat, when asked by a commenter for evidence and statistics to back up her claims her response was a joke— a sick one.
The best she could come up was one article that she had come across, possibly from a link to the website failedmessiah.com which she would try to find, and if she did she would post it for our benefit. “Sorry I can’t be more specific”.
A classic case of hoist on her own petard.
So perhaps you would like to give us some statistics as evidence— what are we talking about here?
In any court of law accusations have to be backed up by hard evidence to be taken seriously.
Why should CiF have the freedom to destroy the reputation of an entire group based on a lazy, ill-researched piece of bigotry.
May 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm
AKUS
Rosa Freedman is Seth Freedman’s sister who ate one time wrote under the name Rosa Davis and demonstrates the same desire to show the worst of anything Jewish or Israeli. On a different level, her bizarre grasp of the world was demonstrated in an article she wrote claiming that women were discriminated against because they did not have the same “right” to FGM as men/male (mainly Jewish) babies do to circumcision:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/oct/01/circumcision-judaism
http://cifwatch.com/2009/10/09/fgm-represented-on-cif-as-a-freedom-and-equal-rights-issue/
Now this piece, alerting the gentiles to the dangers of “mesira” and awakening the knowledge of same in Jews who have never heard of it. As SantaMoniker said – to what purpose? If Rosa Freedman has a genuine desire to “reform” the haredi community, I have news for her – they don’t read the Guardian. If that is not her goal – why publish it in the Guardian?
Accuse me of shooting the messenger if you will, but there is something really sick about that Freedman family. Their urge to share their perverted views and ignorance with a wider public are beyond my comprehension.
May 13, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Heres to Davy.
Tosca
“And how can one take seriously the authoress of an article which proposes that male circumcision is no different from female genital mutilation ”
You say she said this in October 09 but did not give a link. Why do this ..why go to the effort of reading it …commenting on it and not provide the link..?
I dont believe you.I do not believe a modern female writer would say this and I am calling you out. Prove it.
May 14, 2010 at 12:22 am
Irit
Berchtesgaden,
You know nothing about Jews or Judaism. You don’t like us, you don’t like our religion, and you don’t like the Jewish state. If you were a real man, rather than a pale copy of one, I would use the word “hate,” but I doubt that you are capable of anything but pale copies of true emotions.
There is something truly wrong with you or you would not inflict yourself on us the way you do. You know you are not welcome here but you keep slithering around the corners.
Go watch Press TV and stop annoying us.
May 14, 2010 at 2:40 am
spoton
Are the Freedman’s,and Anthony Lerman related.
These people are like a biblical plague.
May 14, 2010 at 6:54 am
Tosca
Heres to Davy.
The link to that article has been posted thoughtfully by Akus in the comment just above yours.
S there’s the proof.
May 14, 2010 at 7:42 am
zoidberg
here’s to davy- as tosca has pointed out, akus published the link….i think that he now deserves an apology…or would you be too churlish for that?
May 14, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Heres to Davy.
zoidberg.
“i think that he now deserves an apology…or would you be too churlish for that?”
Tosca stated ” the authoress of an article which proposes that male circumcision is no different from female genital mutilation, ” In fact she said “I am not advocating the abolition of male circumcision”. implying she would advocate the abolition of FGM.
I knew without even seeing the article that this was a lie. Apology withheld.
May 16, 2010 at 4:20 am
Tosca
Heres to Davy.
So what was her point (and yours) in this ridiculous article?
She writes that circumcision is at odds with British law, that it is genital mutilation, and complains that tattooing for minors is disallowed under our law, whereas circumcision, is allowed.
Yet she approves it.
Her critical faculties are those of a dim ten year-old.
May 16, 2010 at 6:29 am
zoidberg
‘implying she would advocate the abolition of FGM. ‘
soryr, but that’s a load of mealy mouthed bollocks berch. you’re reading what you want to read to suit your narrative.