This is a crosspost by ModernityBlog
There is an excellent article in today’s Guardian, dealing with the growth of Far Right groups in America and it highlights how aggressive rhetoric from people like Glenn Beck may have contributed to that rise, as it reports:
“How far such language is now part of the mainstream political discourse was confirmed by Politico today, which reported that it had obtained a Republican national committee document detailing plans to raise election funds with “an aggressive campaign capitalising on ‘fear’ of President Barack Obama” and a promise to “save the country from trending toward socialism”.”
So the Guardian is right to point out that aggressive rhetoric in the public discourse can have dire consequences, the rise of the Far Right, the potential for incitement, racial violence, etc
All very observable and easily documented, based on the evidence.
Yet the irony is that the Guardian, in the form of its electronic service, Comment is Free contributes to such racism on a daily basis.
Granted, it is not the bellicose demagoguery of American talk show hosts, it is rather very English, understated, but the effect is similar.
Instead of attacks on President Obama, creeping socialism etc, instead of that Comment is Free posts outpourings of anti-Jewish racism, conspiracy theories and attacks on Israelis on a daily basis.
And that is the Guardian’s blindspot, their inability to see how they are actively contributing to anti-Jewish racism.
(H/T: Adam Holland)






39 comments
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March 5, 2010 at 9:05 pm
armaros
The problem is not blindness but hypocrisy.
The Guardian would defend and justify Islamic terrorism by blaming foreign policy. It would not however defend the rise of the BNP by blaming domestic policy.
Of course the Guardian is happy to engage in the slander of the American Right as it seems to defend their claim that most terrorism is non Islamic.
Of course no Glenn Beck viewer has ever blown anything up.
The Obama administration is clever at portraying opposition to its policies as “dangerous”, “far right” and other canards.
The Guardian did not however denounce the vitriol directed against Bush and Sarah Palin, some of which crossed every line of decency.
The Guardian praised a movie about the assassination of Bush but would probably not be so kind to one about the killing of Obama.
For the record, I saw some of the pamphlets coming out of the RNC.
They compared Harry Reid to Scoobydoo and Pelosi to the evil lady from 101 Dalmations. They also included the joker face which was originally drafted by a Left wing Dennis Kucinic supporter who wanted more socialism and was displeased with the slow pace Obama was taking in turning America into an internationalist socialist state.
Wow, we got a militia uprising in the USA!!
Into your bunkers and up with your tinfoil hats.
Guardinistas live in a fantasy world where Americans are marching with guns and bibles in hand looking for gays and minorities to shoot and where shop lifters are executed in the electric chair to the sound of country music.
Just don’t remind them of shop lifters mutilated in Iran as that is “neocon propaganda”.
The Guardian will not attack the idea that Obama is advancing socialism in the USA.
Why would they?
They would prefer if Obama would act like Chavez and start confiscating private property and denounce Jews as agents of Israel.
Obama is trying to advance socialism and Americans are right to oppose it.
Though that is another story…
A documented mentally ill nut shot up the subway near the Pentagon (who equally hated Bush and Obama and was a registered democrat), will “prove” that Obama is facing an armed terrorist right.
What a terrorist he was. He wanted to replace the US dollar with marijuana and lived with his parents refusing to take his meds believing that pot will cure his bi-polar disorder.
They will however defend Nidal Hasan as a victim of “Islamophobia” for having been recruited, promoted, trained and paid for by the US Taxpayer and claim all sorts of mental issues and emotional trauma yet no medical evidence to that effect ever existed.
He was a psychiatrist for heaven’s sake !!!
The news of a former Obama organizer shooting 13 people in a University for having been denied tenor (killing 2) gets no news like “left wing maniac killing spree”.
Nor does the new Powpow of Black racists in Chicago awarding another award of grandeur to Luis Farrakhan who just recently claimed that the “white right” is out to get the Messiah.
Nor would they segway into the subplot that Farrakhan openly called for the gassing of Jews as late as 1986.
Media hypocrisy is grand in the US and in the UK.
The Guardian is even worse because unlike the US media which would want us to forget that Farrakhan and Obama’s pastor Wright are vile Jew haters, the Guardian wants to promote the ideas and conspiracies which do forment antisemitism. Not to mention giving a platform to the vilest of bigots like Galloway and Ben White.
I will not even go to the Hamas / Press TV “guests” they invited to “share their side of the story” deleting comments calling a Hamas leader a bigot.
So this is no blind spot. Blind spots are about brushing things aside over covering them up so that they do not disturb a given narrative.
The Guardian promotes what the others “blind spots” miss.
March 5, 2010 at 9:53 pm
TomWonacott
Modernity
I think the overall point that you make here is right on the money even though I may not totally agree with some of the particulars about the anti government movement in the US.
The media is very influential and always has an agenda. Lying or extreme exaggeration is part and parcel to this strategy. The only point I disagree with in your article is “…..the Guardian’s blindspot, (their inability to see how they are actively contributing to anti-Jewish racism)….”. I fully believe they understand how they are actively contributing to anti Jewish racism. How could they not?
Good report – and good analogy.
March 5, 2010 at 10:27 pm
peter1
ModernityBlog,
You make a valid observation right up to the point where you refer to the guardian’s editorial slant having a “blind spot” which in essence means that they aren’t aware of what they are doing.
I would say quite the contrary, they are very aware and want to indulge to such a degree that their “blind spot” is not realizing how blatantly obvious it is.
Their actions reek of the entitlement that sets in to people having spent too much time in the position and think they can get away with saying black is white and white is black.
The daily drone of the Arab spin machine conjuring up nazi imagery (Occupation),
discrimination (depicting zionism as racism), racial purity (apartheid) isn’t being plastered on CiF by mistake or by some naive noble intentioned people.
This isn’t a “blind spot”.
Its very deliberate, despite seaton writing below the line that the caption under the photo of the cave of the patriarchs in the article dealing with the Arabs ongoing identity theft wasn’t referred to as the al-Abrahimi Mosque with any ill intent:
“@ PetraMB: Your point about the photo caption is taken, although there was no editorialising intended as perhaps you imply.”-seaton
Of course there was, it is the guardian’s editorial slant and they promote it obsessively.
They don’t read the goings on at this site religiously for their health, they groan daily at how they are exposed, so much so that they commissioned one of the house jews to write an article about Yiddish, although even there the ingrained editorial slant reared its ugly head at the tail end of the article with this line:
“It proves that Zionism failed to consign other forms of Jewish life to oblivion. ”
which became the by-line:
“The revival of this death-defying language shows that Zionism has failed to consign other forms of Jewish life to oblivion”
blind spot?
Hardly.
March 5, 2010 at 10:49 pm
foreverisraeli
An obscenely hypocritical Guardian run an obscenely overpaid (487 thousand ponds) and nepotistic Alan Rusbridger.
Getting paid 487,000 pounds for running a newspaper that is losing it’s pants.There seems to be a lot of money to be made from running shamatteh.
March 5, 2010 at 11:02 pm
foreverisraeli
“By God,The Guardian is a loathsome newspaper;a local North London morning daily for Stalinist metro libtards,perpetually arrogant,snobbish, self-righteous,humorless,dull,relentlessly middle class,cowardly and cheap”.
-Rod Liddle
March 5, 2010 at 11:06 pm
JerusalemMite
oreverisraeli
Getting paid 487,000 pounds for running a newspaper that is losing it’s pants.There seems to be a lot of money to be made from running shamatteh.
Yes. Hopefully, the natural course of events, (financial), will soon finish off this editorial coven and send them to the dole queue. Even though I am an evil atheist, I will say a prayer, (short), when this happens.
March 6, 2010 at 12:00 am
Abandon hope
“Instead of attacks on President Obama, creeping socialism etc, instead of that Comment is Free posts outpourings of anti-Jewish racism ”
Im sorry I have misunderstood this. I thought it is in the definition of anti Semitism that to call Israel “a racist state” is anti Semitic…i. e being pro Jewish is not racist …so how can being anti Jewish be racist as noted above ? This article is trying to have its cake and eat it.
March 6, 2010 at 12:09 am
peter1
our resident troll raises his head to belch out something…..and then thuds back down on the bar.
March 6, 2010 at 1:29 am
George AZ
I concur with Modernity Blog’s point: the Guardian is contributing to anti-Jewish racism. However I think his condemnation is too faint by far.
First of all, the Guardian’s fanatical anti-Israel bias in its own pages – forget about CiF which I suspect is read predominantly by activists. Certainly many of the anti-Israel and anti-Jewish comments I have read in CiF are far from gentlemanly and many more are blatantly “bellicose demagoguery”.
No, these comments only show the extent of the damage to the British psyche.
Their cause is the “aggressive rhetoric in public discourse” as evidenced most prominently in the pages of the Guardian itself. Indeed much in those pages is far from gentlemanly; it is almost all unrelievedly tendentious, painfully biased and indeed amounts to “an aggressive campaign capitalising on fear of and more importantly hatred towards Israel”.
This is done in so many ways. Intemperate rhetoric; biased reporting – not only in the opinion pages, but even more in the news sections, to the point where one cannot trust the “news”; excessive focus on Israel, a small country with little influence which figures entirely disproportionately in the Guardian; and much more.
I know of no denouément by insiders confessing this. I do believe the evidence before my eyes. The Guardian may not have this bias as a policy platform – but I wouldn’t bet on it.
March 6, 2010 at 1:56 am
peterthehungarian
Modernity
I want to join your critics saying that calling the Guardian’s obsession with Israel, Zionism and Judaism a “blind spot” is misleading.
Take only the the last article of Lerman – listing among the sins of Zionism the erasing Yiddish from the israeli/Jewish culture. I’m not speaking about the author’s absolute and total ignorance on the subject, but publishing huge quantity of crap from Rachel Shabi about the opression of the Mizrahi Jews by the Ashkenazim and the same time allowing this Theobald to rant about the use of Hebrew instead of Yiddish as the preferred language of Israel speaks for itself. Even the dumbest anti-Semite among the Guardian commentariat and staff knows (or maybe not reading their bullshit about European colonizers) that about half of the population are of African/Middle-Eastern origin who never spoke Yiddish so choosing Hebrew as the language of the country was a logical and right thing to do.
They are not blind at all, they are shmucks who yesterday complained about something and the today about the exact opposite.
March 6, 2010 at 2:03 am
Philip Horowitz
peterthehungarian, I agree about the loathesomeness and stupidity of the Lerman article. However, at the time of the early Aliyahs when the decision to revive Hebrew was taken, there can have been few non-European Jews in Israel and certainly very few among the Zionists.
March 6, 2010 at 2:16 am
Furor Teutonicus
XX Guardinistas live in a fantasy world where Americans are marching with guns and bibles in hand looking for gays and minorities to shoot and where shop lifters are executed in the electric chair to the sound of country music. XX
You must also consider, that not just the Guardian, but the European media, as a whole, consider any one further right wing than Mother Theresa, as a stark raving fascist that eats babys, and kicks kittens and puppys into the duck pond.
March 6, 2010 at 2:25 am
JerusalemMite
George AZ
First of all, the Guardian’s fanatical anti-Israel bias in its own pages – forget about CiF which I suspect is read predominantly by activists. Certainly many of the anti-Israel and anti-Jewish comments I have read in CiF are far from gentlemanly and many more are blatantly “bellicose demagoguery”.
I look at it another way George.
The Guardian is no longer a newspaper. It is printing agenda driven drivel that is presented as news.
In short. It is a mind fuck. Not that much different from watching Fox (and friends), News. And using similar techniques of misrepresentation and omission.
It was not always thus.
The current management must be dismissed and new editorial management appointed. I will enjoy seeing the present management coven on the dole and I hope that Rustbucket invests his savings in the ‘new economies’ which, according to The Guardian and its groupies, are fast removing the United States and the EU from their ascendancy.
March 6, 2010 at 5:17 am
JerusalemMite
armaros
The problem is not blindness but hypocrisy. The Guardian would defend and justify Islamic terrorism by blaming foreign policy. It would not however defend the rise of the BNP by blaming domestic policy. Of course the Guardian is happy to engage in the slander of the American Right as it seems to defend their claim that most terrorism is non Islamic.
Very true. Berchmans exhibits this sickness time after time. However many opportunities are given him.
Furor Teutonicus
Guardinistas live in a fantasy world where Americans are marching with guns and bibles in hand looking for gays and minorities to shoot and where shop lifters are executed in the electric chair to the sound of country music.
Well. I think that they are trying to project that as the reality to uninformed people or people who cannot get it through their heads that the UK ows the US and not the other way round.
You must also consider, that not just the Guardian, but the European media, as a whole, consider any one further right wing than Mother Theresa, as a stark raving fascist that eats babys, and kicks kittens and puppys into the duck pond.
Don’t know about that. But Greet Wilders is probably going to form the next Dutch government or at the very least, be a dominant force inside the next government. While I am all for freedom of the press, I feel that European newspapers are going to get a constant tongue-lashing from future politicians who will be well aware that the Public is being manipulated by opinion being presented as news.
The Guardian is certainly in the forefront of this Fox News like deception.
March 6, 2010 at 5:49 am
Duvid Crockett
“Instead of attacks on President Obama, creeping socialism etc, instead of that Comment is Free posts outpourings of anti-Jewish racism,…”
It is all part of the Guardian World View, which reminds Duvidl of the singing voice of the late great Louis Armstrong:
That’s The Guardian World View
(to the tune of: “It’s A Wonderful World.” Hat tip: Louis Armstrong)
Matt sees skies that are Red; Red sunsets too.
Guardianistas are Red; only babies are blue;
And Matt thinks to himself,”I’ll make Cameron Red too.”
And I think to myself, “that’s the Guardian World View.”
I see Shameless condemning each Israeli Jew.
Idolising Hamas; even Fatah might do.
And he consoles himself with this Guardian World View,
And he thinks to himself, “Obama’s a Jew too.”
Bridge: All the colours of the rainbow coagulate blood-Red.
Except for old red roses Brian’s forgotten to dead-head.
He says, “Marx rules my butt; Engels and Gramsci too.
He’s really excreting The Guardian World View-pooh.
As the coven glugs its brew, they shriek “we happy few.”
“We band of buggers; Georgina bugs too.”
“We’re buggers and muggers; a KGB crew.”
And they think to themselves; “spread this Guardian World View.”
They keep kidding themselves, that we’ll believe it’s true.
March 6, 2010 at 6:59 am
modernity
Tom you wrote:
“I fully believe they understand how they are actively contributing to anti Jewish racism. How could they not?”
Naturally, years ago I would have agreed with you.
But often in these situations stupidity is a better way of explaining their actions than malice.
I’m not a psychiatrist, but having observed the chattering classes, media liberals and the Guardianista in Britain for years I’m prepared to hazard a guess:
1) They simply don’t believe anything they do could be wrong.
2) They are almost completely devoid of introspection.
3) They believe that anti-Jewish racism largely died out in 1945.
4) They have no intellectual subtlety in understanding the continuity and persistency of anti-Jewish racism.
5) They can’t see anti-Jewish racism unless it has an armband, awful tattoos or a skinhead haircut.
6) They have an almost pathological inability to admit when they are in error.
7) They are comparatively rigid in the thinking, which means they can’t take in the development and changes which led to modern anti-Jewish racism.
That’s what my experience suggests, of course I could be wrong.
PS: Personally, I think every member of the Guardian management team, Comment is Free, and any related journalist, etc should be given a free copy of Anthony Julius’s new book on antisemitism.
March 6, 2010 at 8:19 am
Jonny Moses
Foreverisraeli, the rod little quote sums up the Guardian perfectly. Nothing more needs to be said.
March 6, 2010 at 9:32 am
pretzelberg
Comment is Free posts outpourings of anti-Jewish racism, conspiracy theories and attacks on Israelis on a daily basis.
Fiction.
Are we reading the same CiF? Because I seem to have overlooked all these articles.
And I am frankly shocked that posters here generally have no problem with such scandalous lies.
If this website keeps on posting trash like the above it will never be taken seriously.
March 6, 2010 at 9:48 am
pretzelberg
@ modernity
Sorry, but your post from 6:59 am is a pretty poor attempt to dismiss those who disagree with you.
Could the charges of e.g. “devoid of introspection” or “pathological inability to admit when they are in error” not just as well be turned on certain posters here?
I mean … if you’re going to at least try to be objective, that is …
March 6, 2010 at 11:04 am
Abandon hope
modernity
” they can’t see anti-Jewish racism..”
I repeat my earlier point. Under CIFW’s ” How we see anti Semitism ” it states that it is anti Semitic to “claim.. that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour.”
I did this once on CIF…had my post sent to the House of Commons by Hoffman and learned my lesson . I have never repeated this error. However if it is anti Semitic to say it is racist how can the above statement be justified. How can there be “anti Jewish racism “?
The truth of the matter is that “anti Semitism” is whatever you say it is at any given time.
March 6, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Epidermoid
@Berchmans
Racism defines those attitudes to others as reprehensible which depend for their effect on animosity towards attributes the victim can never change and for which he can never be blamed. Foul invective against Jews wherever they live, is a form of racism because it loads onto the innocent whatever faults the racist finds in the Israelis. Referring to Israel as a racist state implies that the Israelis discriminate against their Arab Muslim population for similar reasons, which is a lie and the telling of lies against Jews is classical anti Semitism. There is some discrimination against Muslim Arabs but only to protect Jewish Israelis from ever again being in the position the victim of their declared enemies. To afford equal rights to those whose religion calls upon them to oppose the Jews and fight to return them to divinely designated subjugation, is of such startling generosity that it is even resented, for it illustrates too well the moral and cultural gap that exists between Muslim and Jew, and between Muslims and the West.
March 6, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Gert
‘Pretzelberg’ hits the nail on the head: with contributors like ModernityBlog, CiFWatch will never be taken remotely serious by its opponents (and not by serious Zionists either) and will remain forever a two bit/third rate blogette of the kind the Conservative American blogosphere already overflows with. A little sandbox where its infantile contributors and commenters alike can bake Israeli flags from mud.
Someone, like MB, who truly believes that in the term ‘anti-Zionism’, Zionism is just code for ‘Jews’ can have no claim to objectivity (or even seriousness, let alone subtlety) whatsoever.
Someone, like MB, who is nominally against the Occupation (or at least so one of his friends claims – I’ve never heard him state anything like that in person) yet campaigns mercilessly (but also most comically)… against anyone who campaigns against the Occupation is simply a hypocrite, if not an actual imbecile.
MB’s ‘I’m not a psychiatrist but…’ rambling comment was also priceless: this coming from someone who once claimed that ‘you [that is me] haven’t fought anti-Semitism intellectually…’ is really rather rich. I’ve seen better attempts at ‘psychologising’ in the “health/sex tips” section of Heat magazine…
March 6, 2010 at 1:34 pm
JerusalemMite
Epidermoid.
Well explained.
BUT
It’s just too much for Dopey.
March 6, 2010 at 1:56 pm
TomWonacott
Modernity
Thanks. You just have more faith in the motives of people than I do.
March 6, 2010 at 2:12 pm
modernityblog
“Sorry, but your post from 6:59 am is a pretty poor attempt to dismiss those who disagree with you.”
pretzelberg,
Once again you are accusing me of bad faith, and once more, I must remind you that, you are decidedly thick, insensitive, pedantic and not terribly well informed.
have you apologised to Israelinurse yet?
March 6, 2010 at 2:19 pm
modernityblog
Tom,
Faith? ha ha.
But no, I think questioning people’s motives is a questionable methodology.
It is extremely common in politics and as far as I can see only leads to slanging matches.
I have no doubt that many of the commenters on CiF are antisemites, I think that’s clear not based on my views but on the evidence.
As for the journalistic structures within the Guardian, upon reflection I think you could make a stronger case than I put to say it is unconscious prejudice, not a blindspot.
I accept that, but the questioning of peoples’ motives is decidedly messy, is often inconclusive and I think leads to the wrong type of discussions.
I think posing a question to the Guardian management is better, why can’t they see their contribution towards anti-Jewish racism?
I’d like to see them answer that, after they’ve read their own article.
March 6, 2010 at 2:35 pm
pretzelberg
modernityblog in trademark juvenile form there at 2:12 pm.
Baseless insults and no attempt to address the points I made.
A sorry sight indeed.
@ Gert
Do you actually know MB personally, then?
March 6, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Gert
Pretzelberg:
Not personally, no. I bumped into him and one of his confreres at another blog and sparks flew.
At one point tweedledee and tweedledum concluded that by ‘fighting AS iI ‘that is me] understood beating up some BNPers’ (I happen generally to abhor violence). Slightly later they concluded I was ‘Far Right scum’. They see no contradictions in those statements, oh no!
Him and his buddy (‘Concentric Circles’), they’re quite the intellectuals in the fight against ‘the Special Racism’, you see? On the ‘Special Racism’, MB considers himself a true authority…
March 6, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Gert
MB also loves deploying his ‘bad faith’ thingy. If he’s not busy accusing others of it, he claims he’s been accused of it himself. It must have some hidden meaning or else it just ‘sounds good’. Where on Earth is Pretzelberg accusing MB of ‘bad faith’?
March 6, 2010 at 4:54 pm
DF
Creepy Gert: “With contributors like ModernityBlog, CiFWatch will never be taken remotely serious by its opponents (and not by serious Zionists either)”.
So why are you here then? Why don’t you waddle off?
March 7, 2010 at 2:42 am
Abandon hope
Epidermoid
.
” Foul invective against Jews is a form of racism because it loads onto the innocent whatever faults the racist finds in the Israelis. ”
Oh what a tangled web. What you and the article are saying is that racists are horrible and anti Semites are horrible. Using the word ” racist” is convenient as it is such a horrible slur. Regardless there cannot both be “anti Jewish racism” and a ban on calling Israel “racist” because it is pro Jewish.
March 7, 2010 at 6:48 am
modernity
I suspect that many of the critics of this little post barely took the time to read and take in the point I was making.
I’ll simplify it:
The Guardian is perfectly capable of understanding that inflammatory language in America has dire consequences.
Yet paradoxically it can’t see in Britain how it contributes to a similar state of affairs with the inflammatory and racist language which is found on Comment is Free.
Again, for the Guardian inflammatory language in America is wrong, but they can’t see their own contribution to a similar state of affairs in Britain.
March 7, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Gert
@MB:
To you, any criticism of Israel or Zionism is ‘inflammatory’ (except perhaps if I criticised WB settlers for not washing their Israeli flags often enough!) The only thing that will make Israel budge is pressure: without it, it has no motive to change its behaviour at all. The cost of maintaining the Occupation, if need be for another 40 years, is negligible. The harm of low level warfare (terrorism) directed at it is also very bearable and pays off great dividends in terms of anti-Palestinian propaganda and a ‘motive’ for walls, sieges, checkpoints and other so-called security measures (hint: no Occupation, no resistance to Occupation – a child can understand it).
Increasing numbers of people, Jews and non-Jews alike, are beginning to see this: to them you’re a little nincompoop and amateur belletrist who finds himself at the wrong side of the argument thanks to a self-inflicted obsession with antisemitism. I’m actually giving you the benefit of the doubt here: for all I know you might be a hardline Zionist…
March 7, 2010 at 3:34 pm
modernityblog
It is a common lie amongst the Far Right, neo-Nazis, White Power freaks and their allies that all or any criticism of Israel is considered antisemitic.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I like many others feel that the Israeli government is open to legitimate criticism, but what shouldn’t happen is that negative stereotypes or racial imagery is used in those criticisms, and naturally those criticisms of the Israeli government should apply to all governments in the world, be it, China, Syria, Saudi Arabia or even Sudan, etc
In fact, all 190+ national governments are open for criticism, but what shouldn’t happen is that pejorative terms are used, negative imagery or racial stereotypes invoked, that after all is not legitimate criticism but racism.
I have posted on this very topic before, also I would recommend reading CST.
See http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/losin-sight-of-the-dividing-line/
See http://thecst.org.uk/blog/?p=636
The shorter version is, criticise all you like, but don’t mix racism in that criticism.
March 7, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Hawkeye
“It is a common lie amongst the Far Right, neo-Nazis, White Power freaks and their allies that all or any criticism of Israel is considered antisemitic.”
Interestingly, the same lie is also trumpeted in far-left circles and is regularly heard in CiF threads.
March 7, 2010 at 4:13 pm
pretzelberg
@ Hawkeye 3:43 pm
You’re certainly right there. As they don’t actually qualify as “offensive”, I often have to directly challenge these d*ckheads on CiF who scream that “any criticism” of Israel is claimed to be antisemitic – even though, of course, nobody on CiF threads (well, except for the rare troll) makes such a claim, nor any Israeli politician nor for that matter anyone here.
Re. “regularly”: they may not be that frequent, but even one such instance per thread (and it’s not seldom more) is regular enough for me, so again we agree.
@ modernityblog / modernity
Are you one and the same person? I’m confused.
March 7, 2010 at 4:29 pm
modernityblog
Hawkeye,
I’d agree, you hear it in a lot of wider circles nowadays.
That was the thing that I noticed after studying the Far Right for ages you’d become familiar with their arguments and where they lead, so I was all the more surprised when I saw similar ones in the wider mainstream discourse.
I say **similar**, they weren’t identical, but you knew once you saw the beginning of the argument where it was leading.
Why that happens I can’t say, why particular ideas from one area travel across to another is beyond me.
I’m sure some social scientist who studied the nature of ideas and how they filter across the mainstream discourse could probably answer that much better, but that’s what I see with my eyes, that’s the evidence, and it is rather depressing to see Far Right ideas dressed up for public consumption.
March 7, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Independent Observer
Modernity
racial violence … such racism
Armaros
Obama is trying to advance socialism and Americans are right to oppose it.
While the respect the opinion of both, I must disagree with the extreme of expression of both Modernity and Armaros. I disagree with Beck’s agenda but have never seen racism in his program, and certainly not instigation of “racial violence”. Modernity’s accusation aganst Beck resembles the Home Secretary’s against Savage in lack of justification, and simlarly ignores the obvious fact that instigation of violence is just as subject to criminal prosecution in America as in the UK.
“trying to advance socialism.” The Consitution allows the OBama administration to see to the general welfare, and he is doing so, but suggesting policies which retain private enterprise in conjunction with greater governmental involvement – yet stil far less than is considered normal even by centre-right governments in almost every other developed country. For example, his health initiative remains far more “capitalist” than the health programmes in place for decades in such countries as Israel, France, Germany, Switzerland, Holland, Canada, …. health progrmmes continued even when some of those countries acquired centre-right government.
Modernity
The Guardian is perfectly capable of understanding that inflammatory language in America has dire consequences.
What “dire” consequences? Obama remains President; his agenda (with which I largely agree) is slowly advancing; and, since his election, there have been neither general insurrection, nor extended campaigns of lynching of minorities. If you wish to show examples of “dire” consequences of over-heated rhetoric – and there are indeed many such examples world-wide – America is not one.
Again, for the Guardian inflammatory language in America is wrong, but they can’t see their own contribution to a similar state of affairs in Britain.
Generally correct, but it is actually unfair to Beck to compare him to the Guardian. I agree with Obama’s agenda far more than Beck’s, but Beck is within the realm of ordinary disagreements on national politics, policies, and economics, albeit very bitterly expressed. The Guardian, on the other hand, is carrying on a journalistic jihad aganst an already-beleaguered minority, the Jewish people. The Guardian has blood on its hands (in extending the conflict, hotting up anti-Semitism in GB, etc.), while Beck does not.
March 8, 2010 at 7:29 am
modernityblog
“What “dire” consequences? “
I don’t really want to get into a long argument on this, because I suspect people will see it or they won’t.
Consequences ? The man flying his aircraft into an IRS building?
The shooting at the Pentagon? a 9/11 crank.
The point I’m trying to make use that a polarised political environment has consequences.
It is not mechanical, it is not literal, but any student of history will remember the changing environments in 1930s Europe….
Excessive political rhetoric and demonisation can lead to violence, I recommend reading one of the histories of the KKK for insights.