This is a guest post by Bataween of Point of No Return
Leopold1904 must be a bewildered man. His comment, on the Uri Dromi thread, stating the facts of the 1840 Damascus blood libel – which Dromi had invoked in his piece on the Jenny Tongue ‘Israel harvests organs in Haiti’ affair – was deleted by the Comment is Free moderator.
Does Leopold’s comment breach Comment is Free guidelines? Does it contain offensive or personal attacks? No. Is it defamatory? No. Is it irrelevant? No, it simply seeks to expand on Dromi’s cursory description of the Damascus blood libel. Its conclusion, that the affair ‘restoked the fires of European antisemitism’, is unassailable.
And not only the fires of European antisemitism. While the Damascus blood libel may have been started by Christians – and whether or not the sultan was wise enough to condemn the affair – the libel’s spread through the Ottoman Near East became unstoppable. The respected historian Bernard Lewis counts no less than 32 subsequent libel-fuelled antisemitic disturbances in Syria, Turkey, Egypt and Palestine in the late 19th century.
So why was Leopold1904 ‘s comment deleted? One can only surmise that it was removed because it lifts the veil on the precarious nature of Jewish existence under Muslim rule. Leopold’s comment threatens to demolish one of the central tenets of the Guardian’s Middle East credo – that Jews and Arabs enjoyed peaceful and harmonious coexistence before those nasty Zionists came and spoilt it all with their absurd and unfair notion of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
What is worrying about this deletion is that not only are inconvenient facts being suppressed, but that any politically-incorrect statement casting doubt on the pre-Zionist nirvana in Arab lands is greeted with disbelief and denial.
I was reminded of how deeply this current of denial runs in the mindset of the anti-Zionist left in an exchange I had last week with Richard Silverstein of the Tikkun Olam blog. The fact that only seven Jews still remained in Iraq – it is actually six, as one has died – was proof positive that the 150,000 Jews of Iraq had been ‘ethnically-cleansed’, I argued.
Silverstein, an erstwhile CIF contributor, bristled with an an almost allergic reaction to the expression ‘ethnic cleansing’. He threatened that if I dared to use it one more time, I would be banished from his blog. He went on:
How do you know there are 7 Jews left in Iraq? Who told you so? Who counted them? Besides, Jews leave a country for thousands of diff. reasons not all of which correspond to yr ideological diagnosis of ethnic cleansing. I have never read any serious scholar or journalist use this term, which indicates just how far out in right field you are. Personally, I think your alleged census numbers are not accurate. Pls. provide some authentification of them.
Well, I told him – we know who they are. There’s the ex-accountant, plus the nephew with whom he shares a rented house in Baghdad’s central Karrada district. There’s the man who lives near them, the man who leads the community, the very old woman, the male doctor and the female dentist. And the man whose brother was a goldsmith.The goldsmith married the dentist a few years ago. A few months later, he was abducted by gunmen.
Even this did not satisfy Silverstein: … do you understand what evidence is? Not your listing the supposed occupations of specific Jews, but a credible piece of evidence that confirms yr claim.
In other words, nothing I told Silverstein would convince him that seven Jews remained in Baghdad – unless, perhaps, I went there, met each of those last Jews in the flesh and could name every last single one.
Silverstein’s attitude seems to typify the scepticism of many commenters and observers of the Middle East. Everything Israel and its supporters say is an unsubstantiated claim, while what the Arabs and Palestinians say can be taken at face value. Baroness Tongue puts the onus on Israel to disprove her wild allegations of organ-harvesting. But when it comes to facts that show Arabs and Muslims in a bad light, everything must be taken with a healthy pinch of salt. How do you know that three Jews died under torture in Damascus and another converted to Islam, Leopold1904? Prove it. You weren’t there!








48 comments
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February 15, 2010 at 10:31 am
Margie
Bataween you shine a light on an aspect of history that we have been assured needs no light – before the Ashkenazim came there was love and friendship, I am assured – and the Jews and Arabs lived together in harmony. This is the excuse for the Arabs to object to Israel which they insist on seeing as an Ashkenazi creation. Of course it is another of those contrived legends
but the truth has to be put out there over and over again.
I know to what extent my sfaradi relatives are aware of the general lack of knowledge of their sad history. Thank you for your good work.
February 15, 2010 at 10:52 am
ItsikDeWembley
This is very good pieace and extremely important.
funny how sceptic some people are to some input yet when it comes to other pieces of information they gobble it up with out a second thought.
BTW,
It is important not to generalise.
The Hebron massacre of 1929 has many many stories about all sides and it is worth examining.
I’m sure many know this but in light it is the subject please note:
“The survivors interviewed in the film say that the Arabs from the villages essentially wanted to kill only the new Ashkenazim, because they saw Ashkenazim as more vulnerable and less chance of retribution to follow. When the riots started, representatives of the Arabs came to the chief Hebron Rabbi, Rabbi Slonim Dwek, with a proposal – if he allowed them to kill 70 students from the yeshiva in Hebron, they would not kill the other Ashkenazim or the Sephardim. Rabbi Slonim Dwek told them, “We Jews are all one people.” He was the first person to be killed in the riots, as he held his eldest son, 4 years old in his hands, who was also ripped to pieces.[26] Noit Gevas’s aunt thought that it all happened because in Hebron, there was an alienated Jewish community that wore streimels, unlike the Sephardi community, which was deeply rooted, speaking Arabic and dressing like Arab residents. Noit Gevas’s mother had never wanted to tell the family anything. But in the contemporary article, she had told how Abu ‘Id saved them and that the Arabs in Hebron were friends of the family, it had been Arabs from the villages and not the ones from Hebron who had done it. And she said that it all happened because of the Ashkenazim.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
February 15, 2010 at 11:00 am
Margie
Itsik these stories always make assumptions that we know something that we don’t. Was Rabbi Dwek an Ashkenazi or a Sfaradi?
February 15, 2010 at 11:40 am
GaryO
No wonder he’s not read it anywhere – if people keep deleting them!
Soon the entire history of muslim conquests will be rewritten to suit Arabs’ and their lefty friends’ palette. We already had an exhibition in my city, paid for by the tax payers I might add, extolling Islamic science and its contribution to the West (without which we would still be living in caves, so the subtext goes) – most of these fictitious claims have been debunked over and over again, yet the lefties keep pushing this fiction in order that real history will be forgotten and be replaced by the one fabricated to suit their own anti-Western, anti-Judaeo-Christian pro-islamist agenda.
Leopold1904′s comment was deleted simply because it told the truth – truth that is anathema to the editors of Guardian and Cif.
February 15, 2010 at 11:41 am
censorship is free
That is the most shocking piece of censorship I am aware of to date on cif.
February 15, 2010 at 11:53 am
Margie
GaryO did they have this amazing piece of knowledge among the exhibits in your city? http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009071143333
I do think it deserves to be better known
February 15, 2010 at 12:00 pm
HairShirt
GaryO, CiF is allergic to objective reality, as those of us who used to post there are very well aware.
Itsik – I had not realised the extent of the warped mindset of the Arabs who perpetrated the 1929 Hebron massacres. I can’t even begin to get my head around the motivation of those Arabs who came to Rabbi Dwek and offered not to kill all the Jews in exchange for getting permission to kill 70 yeshiva students.
What sort of hellish, twisted and morally perverse sickness does that indicate?
It smacks to me of sadism – had the good Rabbi agreed then the deaths those students would have been on his conscience and their Arab murderers would no doubt have felt themselves absolved from all guilt and blame for the murders they committed because the Rabbi had “allowed” them to do it. And they had offered him that as, they no doubt believed, a good deal (if, that is, they could have been trusted to keep to it, which is doubtful).
See also, http://www.angelfire.com/il/FourMothers/HEB111.html , taken from Ha’aretz, 1999
And the name of Silverstein’s blog – Tikkun Olam – is a slap in the face to all people who actually work to repair the universe rather than bed in the hatred as he does.
February 15, 2010 at 12:04 pm
bataween
Thanks for your kind words re. my piece. As far as the Hebron massacre is concerned, yes, there is that story about the ‘deal’: see post here:
http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2009/08/lessons-of-hebron-massacre-for.html. But it’s a red herring. The point is that people turned on their neighbours. In Iraq and Libya, where there were no Ashkenazim, the local Jews were massacred just for being Jews.
February 15, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Gerald Kreeve
HairShirt that use of the expression TikunOlam for Silverstein’s blog has always struck me as the most cynical piece of irony. The effort made by its little team to destroy any understanding of the true nature of Israel – the negativity of their approach – is the opposite of the intention of the concept.
February 15, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Serendipity
Margie
I now realise why there is a paucity of Nobel Prize winners in medical and scientific research from Saudi.
Perhaps if Jews were allowed to live there they could up the standard….
February 15, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Gerald Kreeve
“In Iraq and Libya, where there were no Ashkenazim, the local Jews were massacred just for being Jews.”
What was to be expected? That is the way that Jews are seen. If you watch the videos from the Friday sermons on youtube about pigs and monkeys you will be witness to the truth of this.
February 15, 2010 at 12:14 pm
sababa
bataween, great piece on an important and much neglected issue. Your exchange with Silverstein is so typical of him, but in addition to probably sincerely believing in his pc-world view, he also needs to believe that the Arabs are the most wonderful people in the world: somebody told me he started contributing to Al-Jazeera’s website….
February 15, 2010 at 12:21 pm
GaryO
Margie
LOL. I didn’t attend the exhibition because I knew it would not be good for my sanity but I doubt that this particular contribution to medical advancement would have been on display. A word of warning though, please don’t keep publicising it, lest they’ll become wise to it and lo! there it is in the next one.
However, I think Cif moderators should try this urinotherapy to cure something in their brains that is obviously not benign and is interfering with their reasoning.
February 15, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Gerald Kreeve
“somebody told me he started contributing to Al-Jazeera’s website….”
He was under-employed since cif has lost its appetite for his contributions: I suppose he’s found friends that he feels at ease with now.
February 15, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Serendipity
bataween thank you for this.
With respect, although you may believe that the “deal” was a red herring, it nevertheless gives a valuable albeit sickening insight into how these Arabs saw their neighbours and how cheap Jews’ lives were to them.
And it seems to me that little has changed in that attitude, if we look at the education of Palestinian children, particularly in Gaza.
February 15, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Duvid Crockett
censorship is free says, “That is the most shocking piece of censorship I am aware of to date on cif.”
From the archives on February 10 on “The Debate Rages”, “Is Comment Really Free?” thread:
I’ve Just Been Deleted (to the tune of “Some Enchanted Evening.”)
(Hat tip: R. Rodgers and O. Hammerstein)
I’ve just been deleted,
At Cif, what’s stranger,
I’m not the masked Lone Ranger,
Neither a Baptist nor Jew,
I’m just not a Trot,
And Trots’re all they’ve got.
But when they’ve not got the trots,
Plain diarrhoea will do.
(Core Anglais solo with string section backing)
I’ve just been deleted,
By the Guardian Stazi;
I’m not even a Nazi,
Blackshirt or Iron Guard.
I’m just not a pissed
International Marxist.
Still, I’m on their list.
But they sure won’t be missed.
(Sweeping string section finale) DS Al Coda
February 15, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Serendipity
Excellent, Duvid!
February 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Skeptic
Someone needs to answer this old CIF hateful post
“Johann Hari: The loathsome smearing of Israel’s critics”
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-loathsome-smearing-of-israels-critics-822751.html
which has been given new life by Andrew Sullivan:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/02/the-predictable-vile-smearing-of-israels-critics.html
February 15, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Abandon hope
censorship is free
“That is the most shocking piece of censorship I am aware of to date on cif”
You need to stay in more! This is a incendiary post with no references .
There is no sense of balance whatsoever.
February 15, 2010 at 1:35 pm
JerusalemMite
So why was Leopold1904 ‘s comment deleted? One can only surmise that it was removed because it lifts the veil on the precarious nature of Jewish existence under Muslim rule. Leopold’s comment threatens to demolish one of the central tenets of the Guardian’s Middle East credo – that Jews and Arabs enjoyed peaceful and harmonious coexistence before those nasty Zionists came and spoilt it all with their absurd and unfair notion of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
To Matt Seaton. This is photographed and archived Matt. At some time in the future, CiF is going to have to answer on a public stage why this comment was removed.
Perhaps better now to post an answer, even an apology and assure us that it won’t happen again. Perhaps BellaM has to be replaced by someone who is sensitive to what is and what is not allowed.
Have a good think about it Matt. We have you on record verbalizing about your laughingly called moderation policy.
Here is an example that is not going to be ‘flushed’ away.
February 15, 2010 at 1:37 pm
JerusalemMite
Great Duvid.
But your mind is like a sewer. Funny all the same.
February 15, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Duvid Crockett
JerusaleMite says, “But your mind is like a sewer.”
Go tell our greatest poets, especially Geoffrey Chaucer and his Wife of Bath.
February 15, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Margie
What would we do without our sewers – and our sowers (please don’t mention sows).
February 15, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Yohoho
JM – “..Perhaps BellaM has to be replaced by someone who is sensitive to what is and what is not allowed…”
Hell, JM, why stop there!
The whole damned lot of ‘em should be replaced, starting with the Editors.
February 15, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Duvid Crockett
“The whole damned lot of ‘em should be replaced, starting with the Editors,” says Yohoho. Glad you mentioned that. Here is a new hymn by me:
Go Tell It At The Guardian (to the tune of “Go Tell It On the Mountain.”)
(Hat tip: Negro Spiritual[ism])
Chorus: Go tell it at The Guardian; Cif and everywhere;
Go tell it at The Guardian; “Let Bunglawala go.”
See that man; his kaftan’s black; let Bunglawala go.
Make sure you give Bungle the sack. Let everybody know.
Chorus
See that Matthew’s face is brown; let him and Bungle go.
He waves his brown tongue up and down; his nose too don’t you know.
Chorus
See Victoria’s face is blue; let her and Bungle go.
Once in the club, her babe was too; blue babies don’t you know.
Chorus
See Bella M; her face is green; let her and Bungle go.
Yellow and red puss in between; she’s got a septic flow.
Chorus
See The Guardian crew dressed in red; we’ll let the whole world know.
It’s what Moses and Jesus said, “Reds under beds don’t stow.”
Chorus
(Honky tonk piano solo) DS Al Coda.
February 15, 2010 at 3:12 pm
peterthehungarian
This is a incendiary post with no references .
There is no sense of balance whatsoever.
What the…? How…? Can’t believe this…
Berchmans you must be a very unlucky fellow… Think about the possibility that stupidity would make someone taller you would be able to lick the moon while sitting.
February 15, 2010 at 3:18 pm
RepublicanStones
http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html
February 15, 2010 at 3:27 pm
StoneRepublicans
Naeem Giladi is a bitter and twisted old man with a chip on his shoulder as big as the Tower of Babel. He has no following among Iraqi Jews, only anti-Zionist propagandists
February 15, 2010 at 3:28 pm
RepublicanStones
Sure the Lavon affair is a myth as well
February 15, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Abandon hope
peterthehungarian
” Think about the possibility that stupidity would make someone taller ”
Well she calls it “the most shocking piece of censorship” etc etc when it seemed to me an off topic litany of attacks on Jews. I keep saying there should be two CIFwatches ..one to complain ..quite rightly ..about the history of Jewish persecution and another to calmly and carefully attack the Guardian.
CIF watch does well in the first category.
February 15, 2010 at 3:41 pm
StoneRepublicans
No the Lavon affair did happen but incendiary devices that did little damage and caused no injuries or deaths to their US and British targets has little to do with the state-sanctioned persecution and violence that dispossessed and drove 80,000 Jews from Egypt. And before you chip in about Zionist bombs in Baghdad, let me tell you that the Jews of Iraq were forced out by harassment, threats, deprivation and terror.
February 15, 2010 at 3:54 pm
peterthehungarian
The good old Lavon-affair! The purpose of this extremely stupid action was to trigger enmity between Britain/US and Egypt and nothing had to do with Egyptian Jewry. Every Israelis condemned it and Lavon had to resign. Anyway how is connected to Irak and Syria?
February 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm
peterthehungarian
it seemed to me an off topic litany of attacks on Jews.
Regarding the moon I was mistaken…it must be the Sun you would chewing…
February 15, 2010 at 4:03 pm
AKUS
Bataween:
Silverstein is a particularly nasty piece of work.
You cited his version of the increasingly used attempt to win the argument by demanding proof of a negative:
“Personally, I think your alleged census numbers are not accurate.”
Note, that he has no numbers at all. He has no idea of a number between 0 to 1 million that might represent a “census” (as if one has been held) of Jews in Baghdad.
But until you can prove that there is not some number other than the specific number you cited, he will insult you and attempt to bluff his way past the facts you provided.
February 15, 2010 at 4:11 pm
RepublicanStones
and nothing had to do with Egyptian Jewry
Really? So it didn’t undermine eygptian jews in their own land?
Zionist/Israeli machinations in Arab countries are just another sordid entry into the overall history of that unsavoury ideology.
February 15, 2010 at 4:25 pm
RS
Please ignore the troll.
February 15, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Gangastaista
Well, I get posts that are critical of Zionism and Israel, but do not contravene guidelines, deleted on a regular basis. I’m sure you approve of that.
The moderators at CIF are equal-opportunity mentalists.
February 15, 2010 at 8:17 pm
censorship is free
Up pops the berk to defend the indefensible.The truth is incendiary isn’t it?Balance – Israel:hisssssss,booooooh!!! Happy now?
February 16, 2010 at 3:15 am
Eliyahu
Here’s an article on the Damascus Affair, comparing it with the Jenin Massacre Myth of 2002.
http://www.think-israel.org/green.damascusaffair.html
Slonim Dwek is combing the names of two persons. Eliezer Dan Slonim was a leader of the Jewish community in Hebron who was murdered in the 1929 pogrom. There is a family of rabbis named Dwek originating in Aleppo [Haleb] in Syria. They are not there now.
Here is a list with photographs of the names of 58 of the 68 victims of the 1929 massacre in Hebron. You can read the names and see that both Ashkenazim and Sefardim [including Mizrahim] were victims of the massacre.
http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?id=253
Here is an account of the Hebron massacre of 1929 by Pierre van Paassen, who was a famous journalist in the 1920s and 1930s.
http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?id=252
Here is an account in Hebrew of the life of Eliezer Dan Slonim [in Hebrew]. I immodestly add that he was likely a distant relative of mine.
http://hebron.site.aplus.net/hebrew/article.php?id=232
February 16, 2010 at 8:48 am
Eliyahu
Bataween & Akus, suppose the number of Jews left in Iraq were not six or seven but 600 or 700 or 6,000 or 7,000. It would hardly matter to the argument since before 1950 there were 150,000 [or by a lower estimate: 120,000].
February 16, 2010 at 8:59 am
Abandon hope
censorship is free
“Up pops the berk to defend the indefensible”
The word “berk” is Cockney rhyming slang…The Berkerley Hunt ( I believe) You rhyme the last word of course. You are a sexist dingbat. No disrespect.
February 16, 2010 at 9:43 am
Gangastaista
Abandon Hope
Etymology is not definition – because language is not static.
Though you are correct on the etymology of berk, the term is, as currently used and defined, is absolutely unrelated to the etymology.
Whatever the”rhyme of Hunt” means when addressed against a person, it is the worst swear-word in the English language. By far. It is so offensive, and so rarely used, you can count the individual times it has been used on British TV.
The word “berk” is a light-hearted word that means “fool” that can be used during family-friendly timeslots.
February 16, 2010 at 11:06 am
Abandon hope
Gangastaista
” The word “berk” is a light-hearted word that means “fool” that can be used during family-friendly timeslots.”
I was just trying to put “censorship is free” in his place. I am called everything on these threads..I guess I provide a service for folk to vent… they could argue instead..that would be different!
February 16, 2010 at 11:18 am
Gangastaista
Abandon Hope
I have no problem with you Trolling horrible people, just asking you to raise your game.
February 16, 2010 at 11:20 am
Gangastaista
PS…. for a crew whining about having CIF comments removed, I’ve manage to have one comment removed here already today.
Pots always see the flaws of Kettles….
February 16, 2010 at 11:57 am
Germolene
Anyone can have a comment removed in any blog gangaswhatever. Children start doing it as soon as they learn to talk – with words or concepts that they know will get reactions.
February 16, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Gangastaista
Germolene
Absolutely. I’m not complaining about the comment being removed, I’m big enough and tough enough to take that.
I’m just pointing out the irony of having the comment removed on this commentary site, when this commentary site is complaining about another commentary site removing their comments.
It’s certainly more ironic than anything Alanis Morissette suggested in her eponymous song. Think of her singing it; “the censor’s comment, deleted away; free speech, for those that can pay… isn’t it Ironic”.
February 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm
RepublicanStones
I must apologise here, I have my threads mixed up. CifWatch did indeed post my comments, so sorry about the accusation of hypocrisy. My Bad.