Here’s an example of a pro-Israel comment deleted from the recent Aluf Benn thread:
Before….
After…
And for the benefit of the completely ignorant and biased Guardian moderator (BellaM???) that deleted this comment, Jubilation1 was referring to the infamous Ramallah lynching, an event in the Israel/Palestine conflict that will forever be seared into the minds of those of us that appreciate the true nature of the spine-chilling barbarity of what we are up against.
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February 5, 2010 at 1:49 pm
peter1
Of course it was deleted, reality is verboten at the guardian.
Did the PLO really have to confiscate everybody’s film to make this go away?
Not at all, the guardian does it for them.
One roll of film smuggled out managed to get this photo to the public, although the Italian news was banned from PLO controlled areas till a public apology was given.
Whew, imagine that, the PLO controls the news, who’d have thought eh.
Nod nod, wink wink, the guardian just keeps shooting itself in the foot.
February 5, 2010 at 2:14 pm
pretzelberg
The only potential complaint I could imagine was the language used (“torn limb from limb”) being perhaps OTT, but it was without a doubt a brutal and horrific murder.
I personally see no justification for the deletion.
February 5, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Jubilation1
Thank you very much Hawkeye for saving this comment for me. I was surprised when I saw that it had been deleted, but not very. We have all had very blameless remarks removed in cif.
What distinguished this one was that it commemorated an event that had huge significance for everyone in Israel. It was scarcely something that could be wiped from our memories by hiding the pictures or deleting the entries.
February 5, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Biodegradable
It’s obvious why it was deleted. Because as Hawkeye so succinctly puts it, it shows the true nature of the spine-chilling barbarity of what we are up against, and we can’t have that can we.
pretzelberk;
If you think “torn limb from limb” is OTT what about the far more florid, and unwarranted descriptions of Israel’s actions that are so common at CiF?
February 5, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Serendipity
Yes, heaven forbid that the CiF coven should be reminded of the barbarism Israel is face with day in day out.
February 5, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Serendipity
pretzel, but they were mutilated were they not?
And I have seen photographs about what the PLO and Hamas do to fellow Palestinians whom they deem to be traitors, on which some of them were torn limb from limb.
Not a pretty sight at all on the photos I was shown.
And little children were watching.
February 5, 2010 at 3:43 pm
armaros
It was deleted for opposing the GWV.
It depicted Palestinians in a light different than the narrative.
The only other explanation would be that the mod was totally ignorant of history. Unlikely as this was a famous story.
February 5, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Biodegradable
Although it was an (in)famous event it happened ten years ago.
How old was the moderator when it happened?
“He who is unaware of his ignorance will only be misled by his knowledge.”
February 5, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Margie
Mutilation is what the Palestinians seem to be good at.
Khaled Abu Toameh tells us about how they push people off the roof of their high-rises.
How they put people’s eyes out
How they knee-cap those who get in their way
How they shoot them in the head at close-range.
And this is how they treat their friends – other Palestinians – I wouldn’t try to imagine what they would do to their enemies.
February 5, 2010 at 4:11 pm
peter1
What do you want from the guy?
1. without a doubt a brutal and horrific murder!!
2. I personally see no justification for the deletion!!
“The only potential complaint I could imagine was the language used”……. a guess, he’s guessing as to why, he isn’t saying why, he isn’t justifying why, he’s thinking out loud…
The guy clearly said it was wrong!!!
People, not EVERYTHING he says has to be jumped on….no wonder he has a complex.
February 5, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Fairplay
If an Israeli civilian or soldier accidentally entered Palestinian territory, they would be risking death at the hands of Palestinian mobs.
If an innocent Palestinian accidentally entered Israel, he would be politely shown the way out. Nothing risky at all.
If Israel were to disarm, she would be overrun and her inhabitants slaughtered. If the Arabs were to disarm, there would be peace in the Middle East ( provided that Iran didn’t interfere ).
This glaring disparity is perfectly obvious except to the Israel-haters on CiF who are blind to reason.
February 5, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Mitnaged
peter1 of course you may be right, but I am learning pretzel when he is in a tight spot. He’ll then concede that something was wrong or our complaint was well founded but he’ll then remind us if we dare to criticise some of his more far out “reflections” that he agreed with us before about this, that or the other!
And peter, pretzelberg does not have a complex only because of the reaction to him here. I would imagine that he lacks insight or the awareness of how he sets up so precisely the reactions he then goes on to whinge about. I don’t believe that this is confined to his behaviour on CifWatch.
CiF acts as more of a container for people like him and exiled because they daren’t go off-topic or prattle on and on and nitpick as they are allowed to here. I suspect that is why they still post there.
No impulse control and the internal censor is compromised so pretzel argues often simply for the sake of it. It’s very child-like, as I think I have said before. Little children often babble to themselves simply to hear themselves speak. It matters little to them if no-one else is joining in the conversation – they need to hear themselves babbling in order to be sure that they exist so to speak, since, being little children, there is little sense of being “realised” in relationships with people who are not actually in the room with them.
February 5, 2010 at 4:46 pm
pretzelberg
@ Biodegradable / Serendipity
I said:
“The only potential complaint I could imagine was the language used (“torn limb from limb”) being perhaps OTT”
I was simply trying to imagine where the mods might (i.e. in their own minds) have found fault with the comment. I myself saw nothing wrong with the post.
@ Peter1
I won’t comment on the “complex” bit, but thanks for that post.
;-)
February 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm
pretzelberg
Mitnaged
Little children often babble to themselves simply to hear themselves speak.
… as your post shows in its frankly bizarre little rant.
pretzel argues often simply for the sake of it
When some deranged individual calls me an anti-Semite or a piggish goy, then I’d say I have a right to reply.
I see that was your very first post on this thread – how about addressing the actual article instead of obsessing about an individual you ultimately know precious little about?
February 5, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Biodegradable
But pretzel, isn’t it true that comments falsely accusing Israeli actions in far more graphic and obscene terms are routinely not deleted?
Notwithstanding your agreeing that the deletion wasn’t, in your view, justified, and your acceptance that the lynching was “a brutal and horrific murder”, can’t you see that by imagining a reason for the deletion comes across as simply a feeble justification for it?
February 5, 2010 at 5:03 pm
peter1
Mitnaged,
I know I know I know, but how can you ever expect him to learn anything if he gets jumped on all the time, the normal reaction is to put the arms up in defense.
pretzelberg,
It would do you good every now and then to just make a definitive statement instead of almost always leaving a qualifier in your posts.
Its that qualifier that people seize on, one way or the other, so your damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
The deletion of the post is an example of exactly the anti-semitism that is nurtured at the guardian, stifling comments, forcing people to think twice about what they write and how for fear of being deleted, pre-moderated and then banned…..while allowing free rein to pigs like monica and our troll.
February 5, 2010 at 6:20 pm
pretzelberg
Biodegradable
But pretzel, isn’t it true that comments falsely accusing Israeli actions in far more graphic and obscene terms are routinely not deleted?
It certainly does happen all too often.
can’t you see that by imagining a reason for the deletion comes across as simply a feeble justification for it?
Well, it was definitely not intended as a justification. I hope that’s clear.
@ Peter1
You mean this newbie (new moniker, at least) MonicaS?
I pulled him up very recently for calling Abbas a “quisling” – a commonly used term that, as everyone knows, has a certain Nazi-related origin.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/03/palestinian-territories-gaza
Oh – and I only now see that he also used the term on a parallel thread:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/02/palestinian-state-build-israel
I somehow doubt he’d use the term in other similar contexts.
p.s. You’re correct re. “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”. If I respond to the likes of Mitnaged, then the laughable “debate” over my personal character continues. If I don’t, I know there’ll be some juvenile addendum along the lines of “Hah. Evidently he has no case to answer.”
Sort of reminiscent of Billl “Victory is mine!” O’Reilly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHUGCkROwJE
(great clip and fantastic script-writing, by the way – enjoy)
February 5, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Benito
I visit this site often, agreeing with most of the articles, but rarely commenting – most of what I have to say would be said by others more eloquently than I could put it.
Nevertheless I must protest at one thing. You paste images of the comments from cif which are tiny and of low quality, I can barely read them.
In future please paste larger or better quality images.
ps. cif is bad, etc etc.
February 6, 2010 at 1:04 am
jarred
I could never understand why Israel didn’t send a rocket through that window,or at least next to it.
BellaM can’t put a reasonable sentence to gather, but she sure knows how to delete them.
As dumb as shit.
February 6, 2010 at 4:12 am
iva
Jubilation1
Your post was delated because it is a lie about the Palestinian arabs, actually it was the Israelis who have bloody hand while they harvest body parts from the starved, brutally treated arabs.
The photo is a fake
The Mods
Disgusting pseudohumanitarian pseudoprogressive CiF
February 6, 2010 at 5:47 am
THH
Have you noticed that every time a thread is closed after 10 – 20 minutes there are always a post or 2 added to the thread and they are always some kind of Israel = Apartheid = Barbaric murderers ???
February 6, 2010 at 5:52 am
TG
Guardian office…
“Delete that comment by Jubilation. We can’t have the truth of the Palestinians published here. Now, get me Hamas on the phone I want them to write for us again…”
February 6, 2010 at 5:53 am
Biodegradable
I could never understand why Israel didn’t send a rocket through that window,or at least next to it.
They did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#Reactions_and_military_response
February 6, 2010 at 6:28 am
jarred
Thanks Bio,I feel better now.
February 6, 2010 at 7:17 am
Mitnaged
@pretzel – [peter1] “….. can’t you see that by imagining a reason for the deletion comes across as simply a feeble justification for it?”
[pretzelberg] “Well, it was definitely not intended as a justification. I hope that’s clear.”
Well said, pretzel! It is indeed clear and you said it.
I may be beginning to revise my opinion of you….
February 6, 2010 at 7:27 am
pretzelberg
THH
Have you noticed that every time a thread is closed after 10 – 20 minutes there are always a post or 2 added to the thread and they are always some kind of Israel = Apartheid = Barbaric murderers ???
Erm … no.
Do you mean like this one …
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/25/israel-visas-ngo-palestine?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:18e23844-b18d-43ff-90c3-4b9afa06c269
And there have been many others like it.
Who gave THH’s post the 5-star rating, I wonder? It reveals quite a distorted perspective.
February 6, 2010 at 9:01 am
Yohoho
pretzelberg. (sigh)…
February 6, 2010 at 9:07 am
Biodegradable
Mitnaged,
Actually it was me on February 5, 2010 at 5:02 pm that said that, not peter1, but no matter ;-)
February 6, 2010 at 9:26 am
Abandon hope
THH
“Have you noticed that every time a thread is closed after 10 – 20 minutes always a post .. Israel = Apartheid = Barbaric murderers ??? ”
Prezelberg is dead right. This is unhelpful. I have been hoping that CIFwatch would try to up its game to have a proper go at the distorted CIF exaggeration of Israeli violence and the underplaying of Brit violence but it is dragged down by junior high school levels of debate.
school levels of debate.exaggerated
February 6, 2010 at 10:40 am
THH
@Abandon hope
Something like
Israelis get killed and Palestinians are horribly slaughtered ?
February 6, 2010 at 11:07 am
peter1
Our sophomoric troll has the chutzpah…..or is it just plain stupidity…….yeah, stupidity.
February 6, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Mitnaged
biodegradable, apologies!
February 6, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Snigger
Abandon dope you are hardly the epitome of reasoned argument are you otherwise I ask you to lead us to a higher plane of debate by example
February 6, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Abandon hope
Snigger
” you are hardly the epitome of reasoned argument ”
Maybe not.. but CIF will listen to me… whereas these hyperbolic and ridiculous allegations being thrown about will, quite rightly, be treated with scorn by CIF.
I have an agenda…CIF does not treat Brit violence as seriously as IDF violence and I believe they are vulnerable to attack. But the constant juvenile sneers can be safely ignored.
February 6, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Snigger
Dopey, I am beginning to understand how divorced from reality CiF is, which is why they will listen to someone like you, but who cares whether CiF treats anything written here with scorn?
Read my lips: If CiF is scornful of this blog, then why does it delete any mention of CiFWatch from below the line? If CiFWatch is beneath its notice then why does CiF not ignore it?
And why has it shown such disrespect to one of its authors who chose to write for CiFWatch as well? Again, if CiF treats CiFWatch with as much scorn,as you say, why should it be of interest to Matt Seaton who Prof Alderman writes for?
And do you think anyone here, even the Editors, gives a sh*t about whether CiF takes notice of this blog or not?
I think this blog exists to take notice of CiF and hold a mirror up to CiF’s lies
February 6, 2010 at 10:44 pm
pretzelberg
Yohoho
pretzelberg. (sigh)…
Was that to do with the nonsense comment by THH?
February 7, 2010 at 3:02 am
Abandon hope
Snigger
“If CiF is scornful of this blog, then why does it delete any mention of CiFWatch from below the line ”
It doesnt delete all references.. but you are right …it is skittish about it. My point is ” do you want their policies to change or are you pharting about “?
February 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Yohoho
Dopey, I don’t care if CiF’s “policies” change or not. I don’t think they are capable of amendment because the Israel/Jew-hatred is so ingrained below the line and the CiF coven is after what makes money.
No, CiF’s “policies” won’t change until it starts to reality test the message it is giving out. That means telling the truth and offering supporting evidence for opinions rather than stating them as facts.
As I said, I doubt that it is capable of amendment.