This is a guest post by AKUS
WellofSense’s article Georgina and Matt; a reality check has really got me thinking about the inner workings at the Guardian.
The changes at CiF certainly are interesting, and may indeed be due to the economic situation and its impact on advertising revenue. That is not trivial, and around the world newspapers are struggling to exist.
However, it seems to me that the growing drumbeat of opposition to the Guardian’s bias across the blogosphere, the Guardian’s chosen battlefield for its attacks on Israel and British Jewry, the revelations about internal issues such as the BellaM affair, and the focus on collecting and exposing the antisemitism and fallacies (lies) about Israel and Jews that have been the meat and potatoes of the site, “Comment is Free”, that CiF Watch in particular has focused on, have had a significant effect
The “hard news” crowd, worried about the sales of the print version, may have been less focused on what was appearing in the blog as long as ad revenues grew. If there has been a decline, it may have forced those on the more traditional side to take note of the activities of Henry, Seaton and Whitaker, who have been running a propaganda campaign for a Stalinst/Trotskyite/radical Islam alliance through their control of content on CiF. Advertisers may be taking note that this does not accord with the goals they have for their advertising, nor is the collection of antisemites, weirdos, conspiracy freaks, jihadists and would-be jihadis and assorted nutcases attracted to CiF likely to be their target market.
Serious commentators condemning CiF daily like Robin Shepherd or Yaakov Lozowick cannot be lightly dismissed, and the Guardian may hate and ridicule Melanie Phillips but she has a very large readership and her reporting has done much to undermine the Guardian’s reputation. Just as an example of the difference in reach, her book “Londonistan” has been published world wide with considerably more success than other books put out by its stable of Theobald Jews and antisemites that the Guardian has relentlessly tried to promote to its readership. I have seen it in stores across America and Canada, and have yet to see one of the Guardian’s favorite sons’ “works” show up.
Like many others, I stumbled across the Guardian’s website and its CiF Israeli obsession while looking for some of the old reporting we used to read with interest, even admiration, and could hardly believe what I was reading. It was like looking onto a topsy-turvey universe, where up is down, black is white, and a determined attempt was being made to describe Israelis in particular and Jews in general in terms that Goebbels would not have hesitated to use while every Moslem atrocity was ignored, brushed aside, or blamed on the victims.
Thus in terms of We can afford to be choosy by Douglas Murray, he hits the nail on the head with this paragraph:
I think we can do – indeed we have to do – better than this. Let me give an example. Those of us who are friendly towards the Israeli state often notice that in Britain at any rate there is a form of anti-Israeli-ism somewhat distinct from the more rabid recent varieties. It tends to be held by British people of the older generation who will tell you that the Israeli state was founded on terrorism. They cite the acts of such groups as the Irgun and Stern gangs.
Those who watched the video of the antisemitic sad sack screaming at the camera outside the caroling hate-fest in Bloomsbury the other night will recognise the reference. In the same vein, I stumbled across a recording of the vile Gerald Kaufman speaking in parliament, claiming to have been best buddies with Ben Gurion, Golda, Abba Eban – you name a significant Israeli or Jewish leader , he was their friend – and in his horrendous English pronunciation of Hebrew, mouthing the names of the Stern gang and the Irgun as if it happened yesterday, while invoking the death of his grandmother in the Holocaust to claim that Israelis are the same as Nazis. A trope picked up and endlessly repeated by Seth Freedman until finally, through this site, I was able to publish the collection of his puerile but vile Nazi analogies. The Guardian, never shy about publishing them in his articles, relentlessly deleted the list every time I published it on CiF.
The institutionalization of this kind of hatred – what I think of as the “brainwashing of Britain” – is, I think, unequalled even among the other EU countries. Its extraordinary effectiveness is how it has been accepted by many of the very people who will one day be its victims – the 300,000 or so Jews in Britain, with a few brave and notable exceptions such as Jonathan Hoffman. Never since WWII have so few been so attacked by so many for so little reason.
The Guardian has made it its business to be the standard bearer for this attack on Israel and British Jews, through its support of radical Islam, reports such as the Dispatches program, the Carol Churchill play, its disgusting antisemitic cartoons, and the protection it gives to those who relentlessly attack Israel and the defence of those who call for Israel’s destruction in the columns it publishes and the comments it retains on its website – a destruction of the State of Israel which actually means the deaths of some 6 million Jews, once again.
It is a shocking story, and may yet result in people one day mentioning the Guardian and Der Sturmer in the same breath.






78 comments
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December 8, 2009 at 12:03 am
JerusalemMite
I have noticed that the measure of an article for me is when it resonates with my gut feelings but have difficulty articulating it.
AKUS. Your post here has crystalised my gut feeling.
Thank you.
December 8, 2009 at 12:45 am
BrainHaSchmock.
Akus there is an article by Brian Whitaker over on the dark side,and guess what somehow this schmock Brian ,managed to include Israel in it.The usual anti-Israeli posters who are the first ones to jump in when they smell the chance to post something nasty about Israel.That KrustyTheClown,and of course the senile postie these two are classics.These two never miss a beat.
BTW,Does GIYUS ever mention the Guardian,if not why not?.We need their fire power.
We also need to flood CiF with Report abuse,no need to post there, just hit the panic button,as often as possible.Cheers Good Luck.
December 8, 2009 at 1:42 am
Harve Smithfield
I will give the Guardian credit when it is due. So I will congratulate the Guardian for publishing Tom Gross’s brilliant essay on all the positive things that are happening in the West Bank despite the relentless negative press from Adam Freedman, Tony Lerman, Roger Cohen and Ben White, inter alia.
The responses in the comments section have been borderline insane with rage. The Israel haters, people like Peter Oborne and Richard Goldstone, do not actually want anything good to happen on the West Bank. Once that happens, they have nothing to be sanctimonious about or selfrighteous about. Darfur? Nope, that does not get them angry. Iran? Nope, they have invested too much love in the Iran regime. Syria? Nope Assad’s rule by terror does not jibe with their Assad is a good guy world view.
December 8, 2009 at 2:22 am
Philip Horowitz
I have been referring to the Guardian as the thinking man’s Der Sturmer for years. I am pleased to see someone else use the comparison.
December 8, 2009 at 2:52 am
peterthehungarian
…may yet result in people one day mentioning the Guardian and Der Sturmer in the same breath.
Many reasonable people do it already, but I would add an other well known newspaper whose reputation is a perfect match to the Guardian – Pravda.
December 8, 2009 at 3:01 am
sababa
AKUS, you put it brilliantly when you talk about the “brainwashing of Britain”–that’s indeed the problem, as is illustrated so well each of the few times Cif publishes a piece that reflects the real world, like the Evans piece some time ago, or now the Tom Gross piece. The Gross piece was primarily reporting, i.e. a news piece about his observations during a recent Westbank visit, and all he says can easily be verified as correct. Yet, look at the reactions of so many Cif-regulars, shielding their ears with their hands and screaming: we don’t want to hear this kind of news!!!
Another important and very revealing point is the one about Jewish “terrorism”, which is blown out of all proportion, while it is conveniently forgotten that by issuing the White Paper, the British knowingly condemned tens of thousands of European Jews to wait until the Nazis could get them. And who remembers that despite this, some 30 000 Palestinian Jews volunteered to fight the Nazis alongside the British army?
December 8, 2009 at 3:03 am
sababa
Hey, peter, right: Pravda — the tooth and nothing but the tooth!
December 8, 2009 at 3:38 am
Chas N-B
Yes, people of my Dad’s generation always mention the Irgun etc
December 8, 2009 at 3:42 am
JerusalemMite
sababa
Yet, look at the reactions of so many Cif-regulars, shielding their ears with their hands and screaming: we don’t want to hear this kind of news!!!
Yes indeed.
Isn’t it just a pleasure to see them all squirming in one big communal knicker twist.
December 8, 2009 at 4:09 am
peterthehungarian
sababa
what I found amusing at those times of “tooth” that there were many of them – the so called “Pravda” then the “Moskovskaya Pravda” the “Leningradskaya Pravda”, the Komsomolskaya Pravda” etc. etc. Different truths for every locale and every age group – let’s a hundred flowers blossom! I demand a different Guardian for the kindergarten in Shlomi!
December 8, 2009 at 4:10 am
cityca
Excellent article AKUS and some interesting responses already. Not sure about thinking man’s Der Sturmer – would a thinking man read Der Sturmer? But Pravda? Absolutely. It carries the same Stalinist credentials as that previous incarnation.
I thought the title of the piece, Brainwashing of Britain was correct, but at the risk of being controversial, and I realise this site is aimed at CiF and the Guardian, but the major responsibility for the brainwashing must be laid squarely at the door of the BBC.
The Guardian is without doubt, read by opinion formers; CiF perhaps less so, but the BBC has a public service mandate to inform and educate, and it does so, to its very own agenda, day in, day out, 24 hours a day and across numerous tv stations, radio stations and now one of the worlds biggest and most prolific websites.
And the BBC advertises its jobs mainly in – the Guardian – so two opinion forming media feed each other and feed off each other.
I don’t want to detract from your piece AKUS, but when we are talking about brainwashing Britain, credit must also be laid at the door of the BBC.
December 8, 2009 at 4:13 am
cityca
Chas N-B
Sorry I can’t be with you tonight – lots of luck and looking forward to reading your war stories.
December 8, 2009 at 4:41 am
JerusalemMite
Harve Smithfield
The responses in the comments section have been borderline insane with rage.
Yes. Anything that shines any positive light on Israel does seem to generate that kind of reaction amongst certain commenters on CI(F).
Almost as if Israel is their very own personal demon.
December 8, 2009 at 5:18 am
Israelinurse
Very perceptive indeed Akus.
Cityca – many of the public services, charities, NHS etc. also advertise job vacancies in the Guardian. Try applying for these jobs with ‘Israel’ plastered all over your CV – I’m telling you, it’s quite an experience!
December 8, 2009 at 6:06 am
Margie
I’m rapidly running out of adjectives Akus – perceptive as ever.
Cityca I agree with you that the BBC is even more involved in delegitimising Israel than the Guardian but that it is not the source. What I gather from reading the popular English fiction of the nineteen forties and fifties is that the established universities never quite took to the idea of there being a Jewish state and that it was fashionable for two decades or more after the foundation of Israel to continue talking of “Palestine”.
December 8, 2009 at 6:31 am
SickFrogman
Many reasonable people do it already, but I would add an other well known newspaper whose reputation is a perfect match to the Guardian – Pravda.
There is no pravda in Izvestia, and there is no izvestia in Pravda.
There is no pravda in the GUardian, and there is no izvestia in the Guardian.
December 8, 2009 at 7:24 am
John
Anthony Julius gave a talk last night at the Centre for Jewish Studies, SOAS. He identifies 4 versions of made-in-England anti-semitism: mediaeval ending with expulsion; literary anti-semitism in works of high art (this antisemitic literature continued during the period when there were no Jews left in England); modern anti-semitism (insult, exclusion, boycott) and the period from 1967, to 1973 to 1989 to the present “which treats Zionism and the state of Israel as illegitimate Jewish enterprises”.
He describes the position of Jews in England (Britain) as ‘beleaguered’ as opposed to the position of Jews in France where there is an intellectual fight taking place. He believes that the English Jewish ‘leadership’ is incapable of making an intellectual case against the demonisation of Jews/Zionist/Israel and so on. When asked why there was a difference between the French position and the English, he remarked that Jews always take the characteristics of the nation they are living in – but only more so.
He talked about how since 1989, the ‘Left’ is no longer a comfortable place where Jews can feel they ‘belong’. He talked about Christian anti-semitism which, inter alia, springs from the fact that the Jews rejected Christ and the reaction of Christianity was/is to reject the Jews and all their ‘enterprises’.
I should have taken notes!
But see here for a synopsis of his soon to be published book (it has taken him 9 years to write on and off and he is bracing himself for the reception): ‘Trials of the Diaspora: a history of anti-semitism in England’:
http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/trials-of-the-diaspora-a-history-of-anti-semitism-in-england-anthony-julius-order-now/
December 8, 2009 at 8:34 am
streetinsider
Hey everybody,
I was debating with pretzleberg in CIF on the Karen AbuZayd thread when he said, and I quote:
“There was, after all, no Jewish state until the current one.”
Can you dig it?
Just who is this guy anyway?
December 8, 2009 at 9:01 am
AKUS
steetinsider – you are about to be sucked into an argument on that thread with an alte kakker living in Sydney who obsesses over UN Resolution 181 ans Israel’s borders, the multiply banned talknic, now, apparently in his 9th attempt to get back on CiF as talknic9.
You have better ways to spend your life, I am sure.
December 8, 2009 at 10:41 am
TomWonacott
AKUS
The Guardian may be driven by a political solution for the IP conflict, but their methods and articles clearly foment antisemitism – both right wing and left wing hate.
Is there a media driven brainwashing in Europe? There is an interesting contrast between Europe and the US. One strongly supports Israel, and the other generally supports the Palestinian cause. Clearly, the media, academia and political organizations have greatly influenced both countries. This is not an unexpected result since most of us rely on the media for our news. How they present the news influences all of us. We are all brainwashed to a certain extent.
What’s unexpected is the level of hate directed at Israel by the far left (media, etc.) in Europe. This has resulted in mainstreaming of antisemitism in Europe.
Thanks for a very good article.
December 8, 2009 at 11:20 am
AKUS
TomWonacott – although the NYT seems to have pretty much lost its direction these days, and behaves a bit like the closest thing to a US Guardian wanna-be, I know of no major US newspaper that resembles the Guardian in its obsession with Israel, and its weird amalgam of loony-left/Islam extremist party line.
As for the rest of Europe – my language skills don’t permit me to comment, but I have never seen any reports surface on blogs by those who can read different languages of a serious EU paper that remotely follows the Guardian’s world view.
December 8, 2009 at 11:55 am
JerusalemMite
TomWonacott
The Guardian may be driven by a political solution for the IP conflict, but their methods and articles clearly foment antisemitism – both right wing and left wing hate.
Well. It’s questionable if they are looking for a political solution at all. The denigrate any possible compromise and give a platform to the leader of Hamas, an organisation whose charter talks about killing Jews as part of a religious need.
In my opinion, they are looking for the destruction of the Jewish Zionist Democratic state and have made it an integral part of their mission. They claim ‘balance’ but this is sheer fiction. Like their ‘moderation’ policy which is actually a tool for them to control the ‘flow’ of a thread into their predetermined groove.
AKUS would not conform and was therefore ‘deaded’.
December 8, 2009 at 12:00 pm
exiledlondoner
Banned he may be, but AKUS definately isn’t “deaded”…..
December 8, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Israelinurse
John – that sounds like an absolutely fascinating lecture.
December 8, 2009 at 12:30 pm
zkharya
The second half of this youtube Al Jazeera clip shows The Guardian’s Ian Black in discussion with EI Ali Abunima and Mordechai Kedar of Bar Ilan.
Ian Black is interesting for the GWV. Kedar for his hyperbole, which maybe works better in Arabic than English.
In short Black looks to European “grass roots” BDS movements for his direction.
December 8, 2009 at 12:31 pm
zkharya
oops,
December 8, 2009 at 12:31 pm
zkharya
Actually, debate is from about 1/3 in.
December 8, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Serendipity
AKUS, Well done.
Once more you hit the nail squarely on the head, particularly with:
“..The Guardian has made it its business to be the standard bearer for this attack on Israel and British Jews, through its support of radical Islam, reports such as the Dispatches program, the Carol Churchill play, its disgusting antisemitic cartoons, and the protection it gives to those who relentlessly attack Israel and the defence of those who call for Israel’s destruction in the columns it publishes and the comments it retains on its website – a destruction of the State of Israel which actually means the deaths of some 6 million Jews, once again
“It is a shocking story, and may yet result in people one day mentioning the Guardian and Der Sturmer in the same breath.”
I disagree only with your last sentence above – many people I know already do so.
December 8, 2009 at 3:01 pm
TomWonacott
AKUS
I agree. The New York Times is definitely NOT the Guardian. In fact the US media is very supportive of Israel, in general (and that’s reflected in polls of Americans). But the NYT is agenda driven – just like most of the media (like the 2008 elections, for example). As far as Europe goes, in general, you just need to see some poll numbers which reflect the media’s bias (at least thats the way I interpret the numbers).
These are definitely interesting times. On the one hand, there is an abundance of information out there via various internet media outlets, etc, yet many people are choosing to get their information from one biased source – such as Fox News or the Guardian.
As a result, people may be becoming more polarized on the issues(?).
December 8, 2009 at 3:12 pm
TomWonacott
JerusalemMite
” Like their ‘moderation’ policy which is actually a tool for them to control the ‘flow’ of a thread into their predetermined groove.”
No question. They don’t hire right wing moderators for a reason. What’s is so interesting is that management allows their mediators a free hand in controlling the flow of the threads (politically). Thus they endorse the practice. This also happens at the NYT, but I don’t believe to the same level as the Guardian.
December 8, 2009 at 3:27 pm
zkharya
In the recent thread on US Jews’ funding settlement in Hebron, someone who raised Palestinians’ driving Jews from Hebron in the ’20s and ’30s was deleted as irrelevant.
This is discriminatory against a sympathetic view, intended to close down discussion and debate. It inevitably alienates Jews. And, to that extent, it is the latest manifestation of popular antisemitism.
December 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm
exiledlondoner
zkharya,
“In the recent thread on US Jews’ funding settlement in Hebron, someone who raised Palestinians’ driving Jews from Hebron in the ’20s and ’30s was deleted as irrelevant.”
How do you know why the post was deleted?
The Guardian don’t say why posts are deleted – as I know to my cost.
December 8, 2009 at 3:55 pm
John
zkharya
I saw that too. So on a thread about Hebron, the Jewish backstory is deleted as off topic. But on topic – what is that? Everything other than the Jewish story.
My great-aunt’s family was murdered in Hebron in 1929- meek and pious, they had lived there for hundreds of years. They would step off the ‘pavement’ into mud to make way for Muslims as was required. But this humility was not enough. Now the Guardian needs them to step out of the pages of history.
December 8, 2009 at 4:07 pm
exiledlondoner
John,
Do you remember what the post said?
I just had a look at the thread, and there are a number of references to the Hebron massacre unmoderated, not to mention some rather more contentious posts.
Unless we know what the post actually said, condemnation is pretty meaningless.
December 8, 2009 at 4:15 pm
exiledlondoner
Was it by any chance a post by Beithadassah?
If so, his first, and least offensive post is still up, complete with a nice link to his friends in Hebron.
December 8, 2009 at 4:27 pm
John
Exiled
If my memory serves me well (wheel’s on fire), the first comment referrring to the murder of the Hebron Jews said – more or less just that. It was deleted. The moderator was feeling jumpy at that stage about ‘off topic comments’ – ie. the thread was there to discuss the funding of the Jewish community in Hebron, whether this was a good or bad thing, whether the US should prevent such funding, whether Jews living there was intolerable etc. As the thread moved on, posters continued to bring up the back-story. I guess (but we will never know for certain) that the moderators then read up on the subject and came to the conclusion that maybe the Jewish presence in Hebron, their expulsion via mass murder and their return could be referred to.
Israelinurse
A master at work. Julius studied literature at Cambridge long before he studied law. The depth and breadth of his knowledge and research coupled with a cool and deadpan delivery was a lesson in the art of debate.
A couple of weeks ago, I went to SOAS to hear Professor Colin Shindler (a chemist before he became a historian) deliver his inaugural lecture: ‘The Road to Utopia: the Origins of Anti-Zionism on the British Left’. The lecture was filmed and is available here: http://www.soas.ac.uk/events/event54010.html
It was described as magisterial – and so it was.
December 8, 2009 at 4:42 pm
exiledlondoner
Hi John,
Let me be clear – I cannot see any reason why the history of Jewish Hebron, or the massacre shouldn’t be raised. My personal view is that it doesn’t actually affect the current legal position, but others will believe otherwise.
I raised the question because the only posts related to Hebron that I noticed being deleted were from Beithadassah, whose unmoderated post is a little more than an account of what happened in 1929.
I don’t believe in censorship – unless the comment is actually illegal, I would let it stand (I know that others here have a different view), but if the charge is bias, then if was Beithadassah’s post, it might not be the best example.
I’m also not sure that the memory of the murdered Jewish community in Hebron, including your family, is best honoured by Beithadassah and his friends in Hebron.
December 8, 2009 at 4:53 pm
John
zkharya
Abunima calls for trade and diplomatic sanctions. He describes Jerusalem as ‘This multi-religious city…this historical city which has been home to many people…’ and expresses horror at the attempt via ‘ethnic cleansing’ ‘to turn it to an exclusively Jewish city …’ ‘Supremecist…racist attitude.. active expulsion of Muslims.’ Kedar, rightly in my opinion, goes nuts – it is as though 1948 to 1967 never happened. And as though Kedar’s family and my family did not endure the humiliation intrinsic in being Jews in a Muslim (then Ottoman) controlled Jerusalem. Mind-bendingly Abunima then changes tack and talks about the growth of the Palestinian population in Jerusalem…
December 8, 2009 at 5:06 pm
RepublicanStones
Zahkarya thanks for posting that video. Most interesting. I certainly hope Mr Kedar is not representative of Israeli opinion. Just wondering what your view on East Jerusalem is?
Regarding Hebron, I was there just last month. Beautiful city, especially the Old city which is unfortunately sectioned and crisscrossed with closed roads and checkpoints. Also witnessed the sterling work the EAPPI volunteers are doing. There was a buliding which had placards explaining the horrible massacre of 1929, but it exempted any mention of the Arab famalies who helped hide their jewish neighbours from the Mob. Its a pity such humanity is airbrused from history.
December 8, 2009 at 5:19 pm
John
Exiled
You take the view that Hebron is part of the ‘illegally occupied territories’ and from that it seems to mean that Jews are not to be permitted to live (and worship) in Hebron. I agree with you that the community of what – 600? (sorry I can’t be bothered to look it up) – Jewish families, protected as they must be by the IDF is ‘intolerable’ to the Muslim community in Hebron. Just as the similarly small Jewish community in Hebron in 1929 was ‘intolerable’ to the Muslims.
The Jews of Hebron today are not humble, poverty-stricken and other-worldly as were those of the past. Those Jews were defenceless (trusted in the Lord) and were easily slaughtered. I think the general picture we have is that all these Jews are armed, arrogant, rich and impious.
I am an exchange-land-for-peace luddite and if it means removing every single Jew from the (future) Palestine, so be it. Even if it means that the pious Jews will no longer have access to a deeply spiritual centre. If that is what the Palestinians want, so be it. The Palestinians would also like the Jews to remove themselves from Jerusalem and from Tel Aviv. You see, there I dig my heels in.
December 8, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Ray Audrey
I grew up in South África at the height of Apartheid. Though many were fully aware of what was happening the law was increasingly moving to close out political expression of our indignation and its physical expression. The strongest opposition party was the Johannesburg morning newspaper, The Rand Daily Mail. It was the true moral guardian of the nation, expressing as it did our protest against what was happening to our country and our compatriots. The newspaper was a tremendously strong force keeping truth and justice alive and taught a generation that freedom of thought was possible. Daily we read of the suffering of the blacks in our community and the iniquities committed by our governments. Staff members were banned, there were attempts made by the government to buy the newspaper I remember hearing, but the reporting went on. Though there were government sallies against it and its staff the newspaper itself endured.
The Guardian seems to me to be the opposite of the Rand Daily Mail. Where it could have been an intellectual and moral beacon it is a pretentious rag catering to what seem like depraved appetites for socially sanctioned gossip.
Rand Daily Mail though closed in 1985 was reopened and is now known as the Mail and Guardian!
December 8, 2009 at 5:57 pm
The Alchemist
great piece and if anything exemplifies this sick phenomenon. How about indoctrination of kids in the UK to the Hamas narrative :
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/12/08/no-british-school-should-be-supporting-this-organisation/
December 8, 2009 at 6:01 pm
exiledlondoner
John,
“You take the view that Hebron is part of the ‘illegally occupied territories’ and from that it seems to mean that Jews are not to be permitted to live (and worship) in Hebron.”
Not quite. I take the view that temporarily, whilst the occupation is in force, those Jews who live in Hebron are doing so in contravention of international law – but I also believe that when a settlement is concluded, those Jews who are in Hebron would have the right to remain (to remove them would be ethnic cleansing), and that any settlement must ensure the rights of religious worship on both sides, including at Rachel’s tomb and other sites.
“I agree with you that the community of what – 600? (sorry I can’t be bothered to look it up) – Jewish families, protected as they must be by the IDF is ‘intolerable’ to the Muslim community in Hebron. Just as the similarly small Jewish community in Hebron in 1929 was ‘intolerable’ to the Muslims.”
But it’s not “just as”, is it?
By your own account your family were “meek and pious”, while the current community (if one can call it that?) are little more than a bunch of gun-toting racial supremecist thugs – who would be “intolerable” to most people.
If you look at the thread on CIF there’s a strange phenomonen, that appears every time the Hebron mob, the women in green, or the hilltop youth are mentioned – ardent zionists disown them.
The problem with Hebron is that it is divisive, even amongst zionists – one can believe that Jews should live in Hebron, while still being disgusted by the behaviour of those that do. This is why posts on the issue cause so many problems – so often mention of the 1929 massacre is accompanied by a rather large dollop of racist shit (which I would suggest is a slur on the victims of the massacre – they didn’t die to promote the agenda of extremist numpties, did they?).
“The Jews of Hebron today are not humble, poverty-stricken and other-worldly as were those of the past.”
No, they certainly aren’t…..
“Those Jews were defenceless (trusted in the Lord) and were easily slaughtered. I think the general picture we have is that all these Jews are armed, arrogant, rich and impious.”
There is something between victim and bully.
“I am an exchange-land-for-peace luddite and if it means removing every single Jew from the (future) Palestine, so be it. Even if it means that the pious Jews will no longer have access to a deeply spiritual centre. If that is what the Palestinians want, so be it.”
I sincerely hope that it doesn’t come to that, but the longer it goes on, the more entrenched views will become.
“The Palestinians would also like the Jews to remove themselves from Jerusalem and from Tel Aviv. You see, there I dig my heels in.”
Well that’s another debate. Let’s save it for another day?
December 8, 2009 at 6:47 pm
AKUS
Exiled – yes – banned but not gone … I compare the level of debate here with that on the CiF threads, and there is no comparison, despite the occasional flame, so perhaps it’s all for the best. But it seems to me that you have avoided commenting on the content of the article in favor of the more contentious Hebron issue.
December 8, 2009 at 8:06 pm
zkharya
Hello, Stones, I hope you read my comments putting you right about Karaites and your other sundry nonsense.
December 8, 2009 at 8:09 pm
zkharya
“Some modern Karaims seek to distance themselves from being identified as Jews, emphasizing what they view as their Turkic heritage and claiming that they are Turkic practitioners of a “Mosaic religion” separate and distinct from Judaism. On the other hand, many scholars state that the phenomenon of claiming a distinct identity apart from the Jewish people appears to be no older than the nineteenth century, when it appeared under the influence of such leaders as Avraham Firkovich and Sima Babovich as a means of escaping anti-Semitism.[3] In addition, Karaite works written before that time strongly suggest that Crimean Karaites previously considered themselves Jews (See Yitzhak of Troki’s “Hizzuk Emunah” or a Crimean Karaite poem from 1936).
Kevin Brooke, in his book “The Jews of Khazaria” concludes, based on genetic testing that Crimean Karaites are indeed of Middle Eastern origin and hence related to other Jews.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Karaites#Origins_and_ethnic_identity
You know Kevin, of course, from CifWatch.
December 8, 2009 at 8:13 pm
zkharya
“it exempted any mention of the Arab famalies who helped hide their jewish neighbours from the Mob”
Arab families regardless, you tiresome little Irish cultural if rather ignorant Catholic fascist, Palestinians still ethnically cleansed Hebron of Jews.
“Its a pity such humanity is airbrused from history”
It’s a pity you’ve taken to pleasuring yourself in the airbrushing of the Jewish people from history.
December 8, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Times Sucks Too
The Times’ Comment Central is getting in on the act of CiF,
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6949330.ece
‘Anger over Gaza drove the EU to its joint statement on Jerusalem’
Comments:
nabeel ismael wrote:
On my opinion i say that Jerusalem should not be any part of Israel and that the reason there is war is because of Israel.
December 8, 2009 11:12 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
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A Khan wrote:
Any bets on how long it will be before the Chief Swedish official in charge of the draft gets assasinated by mossad?
December 8, 2009 10:13 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
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Is this CiF Mk II?
December 8, 2009 at 8:19 pm
AKUS
exiled – I am pondering whether to write something about hebron, and dispute your argument about the legality of Jewish settlement there, but that is a different topic.
All I’ll say right now is that from a pragmatic point of view I think it is foolish of Israel to allow Jews to live in Hebron before an agreement is reached with the Palestinians, as they act as a specially nasty irrtitant in an already difficult environment. The fact that they may have every right to be there does not mean that it is the smartest thing in the world to exercise that right.
Back to the Brainwashing of Britain:
Here, taken from the recent CIF article on Hebron is another example of what I consider brainwashing, albeit this time from the mouths of two American Jews
Note the use of “routinely attack” followed by three isolated examples from 15 – 20 years ago:
Settlers and the Israeli army routinely attack and terrorise Palestinians in Hebron, according to human rights groups such as B’Tselem in Israel. In 1994, Hebron settler Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 unarmed Palestinians who were praying in a Hebron mosque. One of the honorees at the 2009 Hebron Fund dinner, Noam Arnon, called Goldstein “an extraordinary person” in 1995. In 1990 Arnon called three Jewish terrorists who were convicted of killing three Palestinians and maiming two Palestinian mayors “heroes”.
Along with a few other examples, these become part of the endless recitation of Palestinian grievances, floating there abstracted from any context such as the mental health of Goldstein (compare that with the Guardian’s vigorous attempts to show that Nidal Hassan was mentally unstable and therefore not responsible for the murder of 13 Americans at Ft Hood) and with no reference to the intifadas and ther acts of Palestinian violence – as if all the violence is perpetrated by Jews.
Here is another example, courtesy of Harry’s place:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/12/08/no-british-school-should-be-supporting-this-organisation/
But a moment’s reflection will give you a list of places where children really are suffering much worse than in Gaza – pick almost any African or Asian country, with rampant child labor, child soldiers, child beggars, poverty, starvation (no UNRWA for them), disease. Yet these children are being brainwashed systematically to think that the worst suffering in the world is in Gaza even though it is patently obvious that this is not the case.
December 8, 2009 at 10:09 pm
zkharya
If the EU can force the P.A. to agree to a division of old Jerusalem and the temple mount, that could be good.