I have been wondering for a while how antisemitism flourishes in the Guardian. Is it intentional?
Is it at all pervasive or merely subconscious and circumstantial? Or is it rooted in the false interpretation of Marxism attributed to the great Jean Baptiste Lamarck, that is, if the will can be shaped, so will evolution.
Of course they read Lamarck backwards as Lamarck’s theory was one based on the individual rather than the collective. The Guardian, like the Marxists before them, does however posses an idea of what a Jew, and also what an American should be like. Though theirs is about shaping and exemplifying rather than a nihilistic hatred of destroy and rebuild later.
What we have seen during the last few weeks on the pages of the Guardian would, if looked upon a hundred years from now in some journalism history class (assuming that Bat Ye’or wasn’t right and such classes will still exist), hand over the perfect snapshot of what questions everybody must have (or should have) asked themselves when reading this publication.
Starting with the Forth Hood terror attack; the first successful terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. Not an insignificant milestone if one asked me. One probably not lost on Obama who is fighting so hard not to have this attack defined as terrorism.
The Guardian went on an offensive against America almost the same day the blood of its sons and daughters was mopped up from the floors of the rooms this creep sprayed with his bullets while crying out “Allah’u Akbar”.
How does that relate to antisemitism? Well directly it doesn’t. But the process in which the story was dealt with on CiF showed the neuron firing sequence all too similar to the sequences dictating the oldest hatred in which it was automatically assumed that the victim is the real perpetrator and the perpetrator is the victim.
Now of course the Guardian is much more crass with Americans than Jews, America hatred is fashionable. In fact, it supposedly displays a sense of sophistication required to enter some high circles of European or British thought.
I made this last distinction on purpose especially since Channel 4 aired their masterpiece of investigative work and since I read an excerpt from Dennis McShane’s brilliant book “The New Antisemitism”. The piece I read was called The Bigots of Westminster. As someone born in what became the EU, I can testify that just as in the UK a Jew’s loyalty is questioned, in the EU, or Europe as a whole, the loyalty of the British is also questioned. Probably even more often than not. And every time Americans are lambasted by British columnists, a disdain much worse is expressed toward the British on the “Continent”.
Fish & Chips score no higher than cheeseburgers friends, especially among wine drinkers.
Just like with Jews, Israel and Zionists, the Guardian has its coterie of American contributors who spared no effort in attacking the US Army, American society and of course policies right after the deed of Nidal Hasan Malik. And just like the Guardian’s ”dissident” Jewish contributors fighting against the so-called “Islamophobia” (as opposed to anti-Muslim racism), these American writers shamefully demonstrated why the American Left is incapable of ever fighting a war or beating an enemy for it sees more of an enemy in America than among those who really want to destroy it.
First and foremost, we had Michael Tomasky who in American for better or worse argued before the facts were in, that Hasan should not be “hated” for who he is but what he did. Well, he turned out to be an Al Queda recruit and overall hating incompetent hypocritical nut.
Can I hate him now Michael?
Then we had Dan Kennedy who in Finding the truth at Fort Hood wrote the following:
“Nidal Malik Hasan’s dangerous mental state is a legitimate subject for investigation, not an excuse for fear-mongering”
Fear mongering of what? Al Queda attacking the homeland? Of course, notice how terrorism becomes a psychological problem in the mind of the liberal.
“A state of mind”. A breakdown I suppose. And as the case with psychosis, there is a victim here. Like with cancer, the victim is now a patient. So Hasan is no more guilty than a cancer patient. Probably less guilty than a smoking cancer patient but I’ll let that slide for now.
The fact that the “patient” was a psychiatrist himself is negated to the wayside. A practicing psychiatrist MD shoots his patients and colleagues but he is “suffering” from a mental state. Well so was Hitler and probably Stalin and everybody in history commmitting great atrocities. By this reasoning Hitler was probably even sicker than Bin Laden and Bin Laden sicker than Hasan.
All this suffering all around us. I must say, we need to reform health care in America. Some terrorist families may go bankrupt fighting this disease, so what about them?
Not one CiF piece has been published since the revelations demolishing all the silly and dangerous excuses the CiF writers have pored over Nidal Hasan. Not one.
They have moved on since.
The American contributors have now consecrated their efforts at the pursuit of the “real danger”, Sarah Palin. Probably wishing she would be paralyzed not Hasan who has now awoken from his slumber but remains in his bed, probably never capable to stand up to be shot. Then again, he never was a soldier for real. Only a parasite and traitor.
The rest of the CiF team was handed the greatest of gifts. A documentary on Channel 4 about the secret Jewish lobbies and conspiracies shaping Britain toward the ugly abyss of Zionism. And just like Tomasky and Kennedy attacked America on the pages of the Guardian, Antony Lerman defended Channel 4 while attacking those who criticized it.
Notice the similarities?
In the mind of the hater there are always some made-up conditions upon which the hater may graciously remove his hatred.
“If all Jews were like you, I would not have these opinions”. If all Americans were like so and so, or will speak A,B or C, there will not be all this scorn.
This is what was illustrated at the Guardian, especially in the last few weeks. They do not hate like radical haters do. They do have an idea what their hated should be like and what they should say in order that the sanction of hatred can be lifted.
There is the chance of some conditional love here. And if you follow the examples, you will be rewarded.
“Follow the examples comrades… These are your heroes…These are your models and if you follow, you will get our smug sophisticated love and respect for we only respect the image of you we made…That image is just and fair to all of us…
We have shown you the path so follow…
…or else.”
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December 1, 2009 at 2:30 am
Margie
The Guardian’s net is like the River Jordan in the song, ”muddy and wide”.
Such interesting parallels. Thank you Alchemist
December 1, 2009 at 2:43 am
sababa
Reminded me of an article I read some years ago and kept, on the “Two greatest hatreds”:
http://www.covenant.idc.ac.il/en/vol1/issue1/rubin.html
“the two most widely hated peoples in the world today are the Americans and the Jews or, in national terms, the United States and Israel. Moreover, these two unreasoning hatreds are closely linked. Apologists for this fact, or well-meaning souls who know no better, attribute this tragic situation to the narrowest and most immediate historical context, as if it is the result of the nasty personalities or latest deeds of President George W. Bush or former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, or to bad–or at least controversial–policies.
Yet there are far wider and deeper reasons for the flourishing of this sole permissible prejudice in an era which boasts of its record-high tolerance in human history, factors that make it far harder to combat or change the situation. Attributing hatred exclusively either to policy–what the United States and Israel does–or values–a dislike for what these countries stand for–misses the point. It is not merely a matter of better behavior or more effective public relations’ techniques. Those who misunderstand and hate will not be so easily persuaded that they are wrong.
While some reasons for hatred are as fresh as the latest newspaper headlines, many of the themes bringing together contemporary antisemitism and anti-Americanism are a century or two old.”
December 1, 2009 at 7:40 am
Amyisraelchai
Another Israel blog on CiF today! What is it with these guys?!
Just another chance for the poster with the Terry Thomas avatar and his ilk to have their daily fix of Israel-bashing, I suppose; in fact, two of Raymond Delauncey’s comments have been zapped, so he must have said something truly OTT to produce such a reaction from the Mod.
I noticed that a poster called Ebert asked why they have so many blogs about Israel – I also notice that they have deleted his remarks.
December 1, 2009 at 8:24 am
Chas N-B
Fantastic article.
The ability of Guardianistas to blame anyone but terrorists for terrorism is remarkable: it was the government’s fault for letting it happen, actually the government probably secretly did it, if not then it was Mossad and even if the terrorists did do it we drove them to it etc etc…
And it was Matt Seaton who commissioned a Hamas terrorist to write for CiF.
December 1, 2009 at 8:41 am
AKUS
We’ve now seen 3 articles condemning the Swiss for their referendum about minarets in their towns.
Is it possible that behind this hatred of America and Israel (based, actually, on envy for the success and freedom of those societies) lurks the inevitable looney left belief that only if they were in charge (god forbid) they would know how to run things so much better?
And even as they spew out their hatred, among all the problems the US and Israel have, one of the biggest is illegal immigration by those unfortunates with more sense, less affluence, and a great deal better grip on reality than many of the Guardian’s readers.
As for RaymondDelauney (aka Dotty?) – it is fascinating to see that as long as he only spews his hatred of Israel he is welcomed on those threads – but any similar comments about Islam would get him removed instantly.
December 1, 2009 at 8:49 am
AKUS
SantaMoniker has just posted this on the fourth article condemning the Swiss for their referendum):
SantaMoniker
1 Dec 2009, 1:47PM
Good lord – its impossible to keep up – there are now four (4) articles on CiF condemning the Swiss. Jonathan Freedland has just weighed in with, of course, the one missing element – the Jewish perspective:
It’s a crude reaction but it’s the first one I had to word that the Swiss had voted to ban the building of minarets on mosques ? the same reaction I have to the increasingly-frequent stories like it: how would I feel if this were not about them, but us? How, in other words, would I react if this latest attack were not on Muslims but on Jews?
There is an old, old, old Yiddish joke:
Yankel was tasked by his teacher to write an article about the elephants.
The next day he came back to class with his home work completed. The title was:
“The Elephants and the Jewish Problem”
December 1, 2009 at 9:14 am
AKUS
Messed up the italics:
—–
SantaMoniker
1 Dec 2009, 1:47PM
Good lord – its impossible to keep up – there are now four (4) articles on CiF condemning the Swiss. Jonathan Freedland has just weighed in with, of course, the one missing element – the Jewish perspective:
There is an old, old, old Yiddish joke:
Yankel was tasked by his teacher to write an article about the elephants.
The next day he came back to class with his home work completed. The title was:
“The Elephants and the Jewish Problem”
December 1, 2009 at 10:51 am
TomWonacott
Thanks Alchemist
Great article. The media began their cover-up in the first days after the shootings. Brian Williams (NBC I think) made the connection between Hasan’s coming deployment to Afghanistan and the pain of talking to soldiers who had served in that theater. He suggested that he cracked under the stress. The pain of a war zone was too great.
So Hasan decided to create his own war zone, Brian? The attempted cover up was swift. But isn’t that the way the left operates? Political correctness (social harmony) takes priority over the truth. In a poll conducted in 2007 from various countries around the world (BBC World Service), “…….40% of participants said it was more important to maintain social harmony and peace, even if it meant curbing the press’s freedom to report news truthfully…….”. In some countries, like India, a majority of the participants chose social stability over the truth.
Unwittingly(?), the liberal media is buying into that philosophy.
December 1, 2009 at 10:55 am
MindTheCrap
Jonathan Freedland has screwed up the facts in his usual manner:
“According to Tariq Ramadan, the initial target of the Union Démocratique du Centre (UDC) campaign was due to be the Islamic method of animal slaughter – until the UDC realised that Jews, who also rely on ritual slaughter to produce kosher food, would immediately feel threatened. So they moved onto minarets, …”
Shechita has been banned in Switzerland since the 1870′s; Jews have to import kosher meat.
December 1, 2009 at 11:10 am
TomWonacott
AKUS
An article in Der Spiegel yesterday (Mathieu von Rohr, “Swiss Minaret Ban Reflects Fear of Islam, Not Real Problems”, 11/30/09) suggested that the reason that the Swiss voted to ban the construction of minarets “……..does not reflect real problems in Switzerland, but rather a general feeling of unease toward Islam……”
Yet, according to the Brussels Journal, foreigners make up 22% of the Swiss population and “…….commit a disproportionate amount of the crime in the country; for example, in 2006 many of the identified perpetrators were foreigners: almost 50% of those committing assaults with bodily damage, 51% of murderers, and over 63% of rapists…….”
I don’t know what percentage of the foreign population are Muslims or the percentage of crimes committed by Muslims, but their certainly could be more to the story than just Islamaphobia.
Its nearly impossible to find the truth sometimes. I haven’t read any of the Guardian stories yet.
December 1, 2009 at 11:40 am
Amyisraelchai
Precisely, MindTheCrap, though I believe it was in 1893 that Switzerland banned shechita.
I – posting on CiF as Liraz – pointed this out on Tariq Ramadan’s blog yesterday; despite the Swiss ban Ramadan drags Jews into the picture, stating that the Swiss fear of offending them made the Swiss turn to the minaret issue instead,
It is absolutely appalling that Jonathan Freedland is ignorant of the Swiss ban, and even more so that he has endorsed Ramadan’s explanation of events.
He really is El Grauniad’s Hofjude.
I tried posting the 1893 date again on CiF watch but almost all my posts fail to transmit lately; I suppose it’s my computer’s fault, although I have no trouble posting elsewhere.
Perhaps someone else will do so, and take Freedland to task.
btw, that Horstein is bad news – always posting about Jews-as-Khazars.
December 1, 2009 at 11:52 am
Amyisraelchai
Oh you did it already! Great!
MindTheCrap
1 Dec 2009, 1:49PM
JF:
A good article – but several points of information:
My understanding is that the Swiss banned Jewish ritual slaughter over 125 years ago:
The Jewish community of Switzerland has fought as late as 2002 and 2003 to reverse the ban on kosher slaughter but have not been successful after over a century in the face of constant protests by European animal rights groups.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/swiss.html
Since you brought up the topic of Jews and Switzerland, I recommend the book “Imperfect Justice” by Stuart Eizenstat for an excellent review of the Swiss policies towards Jews and Nazis during WW2 and their subsequent refusal to accept responsibility.
The minaret issue did not emerge from a vacuum.
And O’Neill has a good reply to Hornstein’s latest nonsense.
December 1, 2009 at 12:03 pm
MindTheCrap
AmYisraelHai-
Freedland has written some good stuff on the I/P subject. On one hand he is less blindly one-sided than more of the Guardian regulars but his articles are generally marred by a degree of naivity (he appears to have believed that the Swiss are really ‘tolerant’) or incorrect facts (e.g. ritual slaughter).
December 1, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Amyisraelchai
Thanks, I have read his articles from time to time in the JC – AmYisraelHai (I should have chosen that transliteration!)
December 1, 2009 at 1:50 pm
zkharya
Amy,
why not email Freedland direct:
jonathan@jonathanfreedland.com
December 1, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Israelinurse
Terrific piece, Alchemist.
December 1, 2009 at 3:33 pm
AKUS
Amyisraelchai – I used to do a lot of business in Swirzerland, with some very nice people who were representatives of our Israeli company. One evening, over dinner, discussing Switzerland and Israel, they actually apologized for the Swiss role in the Holocaust – turning Jews away at the border who were fleeing from other European countries. It was a revelation to me at the time, but clearly was quite well known in Switzerland.
December 1, 2009 at 3:37 pm
AKUS
By the way, though all too often it seems to me that Tom Friedman of the NY Times arrives a day late and a penny short in his column, this is interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/opinion/29friedman.html?_r=1
What is scary is that even though [Nidal Hasan- the Ft Hood murderer] was born, raised and educated in America, The Narrative still got to him.
The Narrative is the cocktail of half-truths, propaganda and outright lies about America that have taken hold in the Arab-Muslim world since 9/11. Propagated by jihadist Web sites, mosque preachers, Arab intellectuals, satellite news stations and books — and tacitly endorsed by some Arab regimes — this narrative posits that America has declared war on Islam, as part of a grand “American-Crusader-Zionist conspiracy” to keep Muslims down.
…
It’s working. As a Jordanian-born counterterrorism expert, who asked to remain anonymous, said to me: “This narrative is now omnipresent in Arab and Muslim communities in the region and in migrant communities around the world. These communities are bombarded with this narrative in huge doses and on a daily basis. [It says] the West, and right now mostly the U.S. and Israel, is single-handedly and completely responsible for all the grievances of the Arab and the Muslim worlds. Ironically, the vast majority of the media outlets targeting these communities are Arab-government owned — mostly from the Gulf.”
December 1, 2009 at 6:39 pm
SP
That article by Tariq Ramadan got 881 comments,and most of them had a very negative view of Islam.That heading “My compatriots vote to ban minarets is fuelled by fear”.Tariq has discovered that that the majority of the Swiss don’t consider him a ‘compatriot’.
The Swiss refused entry to the Jews in WW2 now they have 400 thousand plus muslims instead.This must make their heart sing.
December 1, 2009 at 7:25 pm
pretzelberg
“In the mind of the hater …”
What “haters”?
There’s a lot of stupendous ignorance and apologeticism out there – but hatred is something else.
There’s a whole lot of genuine hatred on this very site, in case you hadn’t noticed.
See SP and TomWonacott above, for starters.
December 1, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Al Waverly
The Guardian is largely responsible for the Goldstone report. For Richard Goldstone, acceptance by the Guardian and in the salons of Europe and in the faculty clubs at fine universities was at the root of everything he says and does. He wanted so desperately to be praised on the editorial page of the Guardian and in the columns and he wanted so desperately to be invited to be a guest lecturer at exclusive universities that he sold his soul to the devil. I am quite sure that Goldstone does not believe the drivel that was written for him. Goldstone knew that savagely attacking Israel was the ticket to the Guardian editorial page. Goldstone welcomed the chance to be the Jew of choice for the Guardian’s editors and for the Guardian’s columnists. If Goldstone blasted away at Israel, he knew that the Guardian’s editors would lable him “The Good Jew” and he was on his way to the salons of Europe. So Goldstone did what the Guardian asked him to do, he got the editorial he wanted to read, and with his vanity satiated (at least momentarily), Goldstone could bask in his glory. Left behind of course was the dirty little secret that Goldstone has tucked away, knowing that the Guardian would not write about it. That was little matter of Judge Richard Goldstone in 1986 sentencing an innocent 13 year old Black child in South Africa to a cruel prison cell for the “crime” os possessing a tape recording with Oliver Tambo’s voice on it.
December 1, 2009 at 7:53 pm
pretzelberg
Re. hatred
Amyisraelchai:
“Jonathan Freedland … really is El Grauniad’s Hofjude.”
See what I mean … ?
December 1, 2009 at 7:57 pm
pretzelberg
More madness:
Al Waverly
“The Guardian is largely responsible for the Goldstone report.”
Oh come off it, mate.
December 1, 2009 at 9:27 pm
SP
You would think that these people who chose Richard Goldstone to write that Goldstone Report,would have bothered to check this stinker’s background.
This is the first time that I’m learning of this Goldstone sentencing a 13 year old black child in South Africa for the possession of a tape recording with Oliver Tambo’s voice on it..
They needed Richard Goldstone as an useful Jew to write that report and nothing that Richard Goldstone did in his past would have stopped them from using this Richard Goldstone,who willingly,eagerly, and with enthusiasm did their dirty work.
December 1, 2009 at 10:17 pm
TomWonacott
Prezelberg (assuming you are referring to my second post)
You interpreted what I wrote as “hatred”, but you’ve (mis)interpreted a poorly written post. The situation in Europe is complicated when it comes to immigration. The concerns of Europeans have been dismissed in the name of failing policies like multiculturalism. It doesn’t surprise me that the author of the article I cited dismissed all other possibilities except a general feeing of unease toward Islam. What are the reasons for the general feeling of unease? Sorry, but I’m naturally suspicious of left wing publications and articles (especially in Europe) for the same reason as Hasan was just dismissed as crazy instead of a terrorist (see my first post).
People are simply not buying into the rhetoric of the multicultural-advocating left. Clearly there is racism, but certainly not all of the problems are due to European racism. As a result, right leaning governments have been having success in Europe in the last few years. People’s concerns are legitimate. Rioting has been basically ongoing in France. Crime is up including rape and murder. Muslims (primarily) have not assimilated, and live in ethnic enclaves where they retain the culture of their birth. Some reject the host culture. A relatively high percentage prefer sharia law. Free speech has been challenged. As I mentioned in a previous post, nearly 40% of Muslims in Britain believe that Jews are legitimate targets. In addition, no country can stand an unlimited amount of immigrants – skilled or unskilled, educated or uneducated.
As long as the left rejects the concerns of its citizens, the right will continue to benefit.
December 2, 2009 at 12:47 am
Al Waverly
On November 23, 2009, the Huffington Post did a devastating investigative piece about Richard Goldstone’s years as a judge in South Africa. The apartheid system needed judges like Goldstone to find its actions legally valid and Goldstone was only too happy to oblige. He did other really awful things in addition to sending a 13 year old lad to prison for possessing a tape recording with Oliver Tambo’s voice on it. Goldstone tries to create the image that he was a postApartheid judge. He pulled that stunt in Geneva when he lectured Anne Bayovsky (it’s on youtube) that Jews who call him a traitor are the heirs to whites in South Africa who called him a traitor. Goldstone was flattering himself. The most hardened advocates of apartheid were quite happy with judges like Goldstone who would sentence 13 year old lads to prison for daring to have a tape recording with Oliver Tambo’s voice on it. Goldstone tries to present himself as being just like Donald Woods, who suffered mightily. Goldstone lived the life of Riley in the apartheid era.
Pretz, You have to admit that much of what Goldstone did in his infamous report was designed to curry favor with the editors of the Guardian and with leftist academic circles.
December 2, 2009 at 1:00 am
The Alchemist
Thanks for the kind words guys and gals.
It seems I ll need to start dealing with this Swiss story soon.
As a prelude I d like to say that those dismissing the Swiss action as ignorant and intolerant are actually the ignorant and intolerant ones.
We know how intolerant are the “tolerance fascists” but their ignorance is betrayed (as is their disdain for religion responsible for that ignorance) when they cannot differentiate between a Mosque and a Minaret.
Racism and xenophobia are not new in Europe. But of late, they have become socially unacceptable. This attitude vis avis Muslims stems in large part from their general knowledge of Islamic history and the true disaster multiculturalism has become when actually there is nothing “multi” about a particular immigrant group arriving in large numbers shifting whole cities in their demographic profiles in less than one generation. This is testament more to tolerance than intolerance.
The Swiss have always been very unique and traditional. Some say chauvinistic. But when in Switzerland, one can see people of all colors and races getting along. I first visited the country when I was a child and recall how many traditional Arab dressed people I saw.
They are strict about rules in Switzerland. There are super strict driving rules and alcohol consumption rules as well as a general sense of conformity which pervades there, often irritating to visitors.
With this in mind, I find it not surprising they have moved sooner then others with this minaret rule.
December 2, 2009 at 1:46 am
Margie
Al Waverley, Goldstone is an ambitious man who carries out his job whatever it is with a great deal of ambition and enthusiasm. When he worked for the Apartheid regime he carried out their laws to the letter and when he worked for the post-Apartheid ANC he reportedly did that well too, exonerating the ANC members while finding the whites guilty. When he worked for UNHR he accomplished what their brief demanded of him – he found Israel guilty.
He has never worked directly for the Guardian. I am sure that they could not afford a Judge’s fees — so you can’t say that he tried to ”curry favour” with them but there is no doubt that his latest behaviour was pleasing to them.
December 2, 2009 at 1:51 am
Richard
Pretelberg, do you have some king of pull at the Guardian? Of anyone one the boards you seem to make an effort to be concillatory between the sides, and almost seem to make a real effort to actually understand both sides and pick out the real arguments from the crap. On the other hand, ever once in a while I seem to hear something out of place, something that makes me wonder if you are really an independent thinker and poster. Much like your comment from Nov. 30th where you said ”
pretzelberg
30 Nov 2009, 2:53PM
@ Mods.
I questioned GoldenTriangle’s opening post – but there was IMO nowt in it that justified deletion.
Please, please can you fix it for us to have the post reinstated, because it was certainly relevant to the debate and not offensive in any way.
I mean, that might just be you being coy with the moderators, or it might suggest that there’s something a little more going on there.
Is there?
December 2, 2009 at 1:58 am
SickFrogman
Pretzel
See what I mean … ?
No, not really. The Guardian clearly has an obsessive hatred of Jews. Using self-hating Jews to advance the Guardian’s anti-Semitic agenda is a trick used by Jew-haters throughout history, from Torquemada to Goebbels. The Guardian’s in good company – even if its objective is “just” the elimination of Israel and not of “good” Jews.
December 2, 2009 at 3:47 am
Amyisraelchai
zkharya, thanks for the suggestion – I’ve just e-mailed Mr Freedland, so hopefully he won’t fall into that trap again.
December 2, 2009 at 4:09 am
MindTheCrap
AKUS:
“One evening, over dinner, discussing Switzerland and Israel, they actually apologized for the Swiss role in the Holocaust – turning Jews away at the border who were fleeing from other European countries. It was a revelation to me at the time, but clearly was quite well known in Switzerland.”
That is one part of the picture. The other part is the money-laundering carried out by the Swiss Banks AND the Swiss Government that financed the Nazi war effort. In fact, the Swiss govt took over many of these activities from the banks. This is what is described in detail in the book by Stuart Eizenstat that I recommended – “Imperfect Justice”. Although the Swiss banks acknowleged their part and returned money to account holders, the Swiss govt refused to admit any guilt and did not contribute to the fund set up by the banks. This contrasts with the agreement by German companies such as Siemens to compensate wartime slave-labourers, where the German govt admitted its part and contributed large amounts to the compensation funds.
December 2, 2009 at 4:49 am
The Alchemist
Francois Genoud was Swiss as is Ahmed Huber.
But the Swiss gov’t was going to hand over Genoud to the US when Sen D’Amato issued a subpoena for him to testify regarding his Holocaust banking. Genoud chose suicide by the assistance of the famous right to die movement also from Switzerland.
December 2, 2009 at 7:22 am
AKUS
I went to see how Mr. Freedland is doing on the minarets issue.
Can you believe that the following comment was deleted by the night-owls (the cleanup crew the Guardian uses to delete non-GWV comments)?
SantaMoniker
1 Dec 2009, 1:47PM
Good lord – its impossible to keep up – there are now four (4) articles on CiF condemning the Swiss. Jonathan Freedland has just weighed in with, of course, the one missing element – the Jewish perspective:
It’s a crude reaction but it’s the first one I had to word that the Swiss had voted to ban the building of minarets on mosques ? the same reaction I have to the increasingly-frequent stories like it: how would I feel if this were not about them, but us? How, in other words, would I react if this latest attack were not on Muslims but on Jews?
There is an old, old, old Yiddish joke:
Yankel was tasked by his teacher to write an article about the elephants.
The next day he came back to class with his home work completed. The title was:
“The Elephants and the Jewish Problem”
————
Last time I looked at the thread it had about 120 recommends. Do they have no sense of humor at all? And compared to some of the comments justficably mocking Freedland, pretty harmless?
December 2, 2009 at 7:32 am
AKUS
Pretzelberg – A Jewish-Israeli commentator repeats a Yiddish joke on the Freedland thread to point out the absurdity of his “as-a-Jew” article – and the comment is deleted. Someone hit the “abuse” button”??
This remains, however, fortunately:
*
dunappeasin
1 Dec 2009, 1:44PM
My first reaction was very similar to yours Jonathan. I asked myself how would I feel if Muslim countries tried to impose restrictions on the building of churches and other non-Muslim places of worship, or prevented the importation of Bibles and banned missionary work.
And then I suddenly realised that they’ve been doing all that for centuries anyway.
*
o Recommend? (554)
or this, which fortunately has survived so far:
*
duramater
1 Dec 2009, 1:49PM
Jonathan. There’s empathy and stupidity, and your column firmly falls into the latter category. The Swiss have not banned mosques or Islam, but a construction that is not a fundamental part of the Islamic faith.
The Swiss (and many others, as posts on other blogs covering this subject, have shown) are increasingly concerned about the spread of Islam across Europe and its growing demands for more rights coupled with its failure to integrate with the general population. It’s a religion whose beliefs about women, gay people, Jews and other non-Muslims, do not fit well with Western, liberal democracy. And I won’t even go into the terrorist attacks, botched terrorist attacks and attempts to censor free speech.
*
o Recommend? (790)
December 2, 2009 at 1:39 pm
JerusalemMite
AKUS – It’s a religion whose beliefs about women, gay people, Jews and other non-Muslims, do not fit well with Western, liberal democracy. And I won’t even go into the terrorist attacks, botched terrorist attacks and attempts to censor free speech.
Seems that even on CIF, Islamists and their deceptions/double speek are not popular amongst commenters.
December 2, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Yohoho
Pretzelberg, you are going it again – “genuine” hatred (as opposed to what, “fake” hatred, and how would you be able to tell the difference?) in the same way as you referred elsewhere on this blog to genuine or real antisemitism.
I doubt that you would recognise it if you came across it.
December 2, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Yohoho
Of course, I meant genuine or FAKE antisemitism.
What else would you call this endless denigration of Israel which so easily slippy-slides into denigration of Jews generally?
December 2, 2009 at 4:20 pm
The Alchemist
The hatred I referred to in my article is the one many call “ideological hatred”.
I recall making the distinction between what I described and what is “nihilistic hatred” (like Al Queda, Nazis or similar).
What I was referring to was the narrative which has its roots in Stalin and Mao who applied the theory of Lamarck in its most obscene subversion. That is the shaping of individuals through a collective will.
“There are enemies and thus you must hate them.”
“These are examples…you must follow them and adore them”
There is both a conscious and subconscious hatred of America and Jews (disguised now as Israel) among the staff and the readers of the Guardian.
The Hasan story illustrated this all too well and I was making the point how America hatred has relatives in antisemitism. Especially in the cognitive sense.
What I also tried to illustrate was how the dogma is imposed through examples. A real Stalinist method of indoctrination all to pervasive in the Left these days but rooted in the 20th Centuries Marxist dictatorships.
This is not to say there is no hatred on the right.
Of course there is but that hatred takes often the form of personal attacks instead of generalizations about whole countries and peoples.
This collectivism is what forces the Left into bigotry.
The speed with which a Muslim terrorist murdering over a dozen people has become the victim and America the perpetrator was what prompted me to write the piece as well as the absolute lack of contrition once the facts were in. Not just the facts about Hasan but also about the Army and its history of tolerance and political correctness debunking 100% the leftist narrative the Guardian adopted in a Pavlovian reflex.
If this was any other crime, the outrage would have been visible believe me.