The estimable Denis MacEoin has kindly given us permission to post this beautifully articulated critique of the Guardian written by him a number of months ago to Elisabeth Ribbans, managing editor of the Guardian.
Dear Ms Ribbans,
Thank you very much indeed for your e-mail of the 25th. I have allowed a few days to elapse before answering, since I have wanted to collect my thoughts and come back to you in as uncomplicated a fashion as possible.
I was sorely tempted to respond with a lengthy account of why all or most of the war crimes allegations laid against Israel remain just that — allegations — or to show more conclusively that they are severally being refuted with growing vigour and in increasing details. But I’m aware that the evaluation of such evidence does not fall within your duties as Managing Editor. I shall refer to the allegations briefly below, but I don’t want them to be the primary focus of this letter, which is more a reply to yours than an attempt to engage in the specifics of a much broader debate.
I should perhaps say a few words about myself. I’m a former academic in Arabic, Persian and Islamic Studies, the author of several books and dozens of articles and encyclopedia entries on aspects of Islam; I am currently editor-designate of a leading journal on the Middle East, the Middle East Quarterly. I cite this merely to show that I am familiar with this territory.
Perhaps, too, I should add that I consider myself a liberal, a Guardian reader (though often an affronted one), somewhat centre-right nowadays, but a staunch supporter of human rights, women’s rights, gay rights, and the rights of religious minorities. It is precisely from those convictions that my admiration for and my defence of Israel stem. It is not far-right indulgence of Israeli ‘fascism’ or worse that drives me, but a centrist conviction that Israel is more sinned against than sinning. I know no other country in the Middle East that promotes the values I hold dearest: democracy, free speech, freedom of the press, and those rights for women, gays, and religious minorities. If I were to take you by the hand across the Middle East, from Morocco (where I have lived) to Iran (where I have lived as well), and beyond to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, those virtues would be nowhere evident. You would see no trace of democracy, you would see women oppressed, you would see young gay men dangling from ropes. Hence my deep concern when I see Israel traduced so many times in the Guardian, the very paper that should be holding it up as a flawed but dynamic model for democracy and ethical behaviour in the region.
You suggest that the Guardian does not malign Israel, but simply presents unbiased reporting of the facts. I do not wish to seem rude, but I think you are very wrong. The Guardian has for years been notorious for the vehemence of its anti-Israel views. I have seen with my own eyes any number of Guardian news reports slanted heavily against Israel, and a surfeit of op-eds voicing anti-Israel sentiment, including pieces written by apologists for Hamas and by two of its leaders. Hamas is without denial a virulently anti-Semitic terrorist organization whose very Charter commits it to the destruction of Israel and the fighting of jihad in preference to engaging in peace talks. The number of anti-Israel op-eds over the years has hugely outnumbered those in favour of the Jewish state. Azzam Tamimi alone has written some thirty-one pieces: this is a man who has said he wished he could be a suicide bomber in Israel. We have had large numbers of comment pieces from Ghada Karmi, a proponent of the one-state solution designed to eradicate Israel, and we have had pieces by Faisal Bodi, who famously wrote in the Guardian that Israel had no right to exist. The Guardian has published opinion pieces by two Hamas leaders, Ismail Haniyeh and Khalid Mish’al. Among other things, Mish’al has stated: ‘Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day’. He is not a man I would have in my living-room. No decent person would shake his hand. The EU and many countries have declared Hamas to be a terrorist entity: I find it hard to understand why a liberal newspaper would give publicity to the leaders of what is, quite frankly, a fascist organization.
You say that ‘We flatly refute any suggestion that we’re “bent on condemning one side”’. I have already shown the extent to which Guardian opinion pages slant heavily towards a pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel position. Over the years, I have never sensed any warmth in the Guardian towards Israel, and I have been troubled by a string of reports and opinions celebrating the Palestinian ‘resistance’, touching at times on the defence of very real moral depravity, from anti-Semitism to suicide bombing to the launching of thousands of rockets on civilian centres. You suggest that last week’s reports did not condemn one side. Please look at the main webpage archiving your coverage of the war-crimes allegations ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/gaza-war-crimes-investigation). There is indeed one entry covering allegations against Hamas. However, here is what you will find about Israel (I deal only with this single web page, not with any links): ‘Israeli war crimes allegations: what the law says’; ‘Will Israel be brought to book?’ (by Seumas Milne, not a friend of Israel); ‘Gaza war crimes investigation: Israeli drones’; ‘Evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes’; ‘End this culture of Israeli impunity’; ‘The Israeli attacks’. There are three videos: ‘Cut to pieces: the family drinking tea in a courtyard’; ‘Palestinian brothers: used as human shields in Gaza’; and ‘Under attack: medics died trying to help casualties’. As well as: ‘Gazan war crimes: attacks on medics’; ‘Gazan war crimes investigation: human shields’. There are also links to audio reports.
Surely you will not deny that that constitutes a relentless focus on allegations against one side in the conflict. Over the years, I have waited to see the Guardian investigate in depth the very real evil of Palestinian terrorism, to carry a major report on the years of shelling of Sderot and Ashkelon, or even to publish and invite comment on the anti-Jewish and anti-peace Hamas Charter or the Risala Maftuha of Hizbullah. You may by now be aware that the Israeli embassy in London has spoken out against your coverage of Gaza ( http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1237727540196&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull), and you may know that the New York Times has already published what amounts to a retraction of their own anti-Israel ‘war crimes’ reports ( http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/world/middleeast/28israel.html?_r=2&hp).
I am also concerned that Guardian editors display a clear fondness for Arab and Palestinian sources than for Jewish or Israeli. On 21 March this year, Arab Media Watch held a dinner for 200 guests. Ian Black, the Guardian’s Middle East editor, was unable to attend, but sent a glowing tribute to the AMW. I would not deny that someone in Mr Black’s position should use AMW, but it’s worth saying that this organization is blatantly pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli. Their logo and name are shown in the colours of the Palestinian flag. I would have looked for some balance, perhaps with Mr Black’s honouring pro-Israel media organizations like BICOM, Just Journalism, Honest Reporting or MEMRI, but, as far as I’m aware, he has not made even a mild tribute to their work. Back in 2002, there was a rather bitter debate between Brian Whitaker and the founder of MEMRI (the Middle East Media Research Institute), in which Whitaker made wild accusations against the institute. I won’t rehearse those here, but I will say that my many years of using material from MEMRI have convinced me that, although it’s selective, it does supply excellent transcripts and TV recordings for Arabic and Persian media. There really does seem to be an ingrained bias among Guardian journalists that favours the Arab or Palestinian narrative to that of Israel, and makes little pretence to genuine objectivity in any sense.
The thrust of my letter to the editor was, as you know, a hope that contextualization might help balance much of the Guardian’s reporting. Let me repeat this: the media are awash with allegations against Israel that are simply not true. No doubt some Israeli media carry their own distortions, but that is not the point. I am concerned with the context for your reporting, which is the existence of a general anti-Israeli myth that bears close resemblance in many respects to the myths about Jews that have been around for many centuries and show signs at the moment of being revived to potentially deadly effect.
This is particularly true of much of the Islamic media and the far left in Europe and America, but many of these falsehoods have taken hold elsewhere or have come to exert a subtle influence by creating an environment in which it is easy to create report and opinion pieces like those found in the Guardian. Some of these falsehoods are just political slogans: ‘Stop the Holocaust in Gaza’ or ‘Israelis are the new Nazis’ or ‘Israel is an apartheid state’. They are emotive, they have simply no basis in fact, yet vast numbers of people, clearly unable to examine any of them in detail, believe them. Naïve British people actually believe there has been a Holocaust in Gaza and seem unable to do the simple calculations that would show it to be an outrageous lie. This creates a toxic environment, in which it is all too easy to think Israel capable of anything and to believe it would be only natural for Israelis to kill children for sport or to use their blood to make matzos (this last blood libel imagery has been used in university settings in the US). There are also specific crimes laid at Israel’s door. The earliest and most famous is the repeated myth of an Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin during the 1948 conflict, which is at worst contentious in its much-disputed ‘facts’. The ‘massacre’ at Jenin in 2002 is still much quoted, despite the fact that a UN fact-finding mission declared that no such massacre had taken place. More recently, the ‘massacre’ of 40 children in an UNWRA school in Gaza on 6 January this year, was blazed across front pages and TV screens worldwide. Jeremy Paxman accused Israeli troops of deliberately firing in the school. In fact, as the UN later admitted, no Israeli rockets fell in the schoolyard as claimed, but in the street outside, from which Hamas had been firing. Some twelve people, not forty and not schoolchildren, died. Who will remember the true story when the lie has had such currency? Next year we may expect to see banners on the streets of London accusing Israel of ‘Massacre in UNWRA school’. I could cite many more examples, but I think the foregoing make my point: Israel has to fight wars on two fronts, against rockets, bullets, and bombs on the one hand, and against huge propaganda lies that circulate through the Internet and often appear in the media.
Given that context, I considered the Guardian’s rush to judgement over Gaza to be premature. As the days pass, that prematurity becomes more and more apparent. You gave great prominence to allegations that are now being withdrawn, allegations that were based on hearsay in the first place. Even when all the reports have been written and blame apportioned more fairly, I know from long experience that the balance sheet will not be drawn up on your front pages. I do not expect to see a front-page denunciation of Hamas’s numerous war crimes, just as I have never seen much condemnation of them or Hizbullah. I wrote my letter, which remains unpublished, to draw readers’ attention to the fact that allegations against Israel or the IDF have to be taken with many pinches of salt, that caution is needed. Responsible journalism takes account of he Big Lie, and in the case of Israel no balanced newspaper would rush to judgement quite so precipitously as the Guardian has done.
I am not asking you and your colleagues to become advocates of Israel or its policies. I only wish the Guardian could be a deal more fair, that it would run more stories on the positive things that happen in Israel (its treatment of religious minorities, for example, is stunning and unparalleled in the Middle East; its very real lack of racism is exemplary; and its gay rights parades an affront to all ultra-orthodox Jews and every single state in the region). And perhaps we could read more on the negative features of life in the West Bank or Gaza (honour killings of women, murders of homosexuals, the persecution of Christians?). The positive stories are readily available. At the moment, Guardian reporters go to Gaza, interview a few civilians (under the very strict gaze of Hamas minders) and report back that Israel has done this or that terrible thing. But what would you say if you knew that Hamas would have no compunction about killing you and your family if you said anything favourable to Israel? The heavy reliance on Palestinian stringers and interviewees has been skilfully studied in Stephanie Gutmann’s The Other War: Israelis, Palestinians and the Struggle for Media Supremacy (2005), which I strongly recommend. Its cover alone speaks volumes. It shows a Palestinian boy seemingly in the act of throwing a stone. But he is not throwing anything at anyone. He is pretending to throw a stone at Israeli troops. Next to him are perhaps fifty reporters from the world press, photographing him. It is a fake, but it will have been used. I have seen many like this. Did anyone step away from that photo-shoot, pleading that the reporters job is to tell the truth?
Let me leave you with a short and straightforward story from the recent Gaza war:
Col. Roi Elkabets, commander of an armoured brigade, told of occasions when fire was held. His troops saw “a woman, about 60 years old, walking with a white flag and six to eight children behind her, and behind them was a Hamas fighter with his gun. “We did not shoot him.”
I desperately hope to see stories like that in the Guardian in future. Israeli troops are not jack-booted SS soldiers, they are often kindly, helpful, and moral. They operate according to a strict code of ethics. Some do wrong. But soldiers in any army do wrong. The IDF is more moral than most, and Hamas has shown itself to be without any morality at all, as witnessed in this recent conflict, when it dragged members of Fatah out of their hospital beds to shoot them, when it stationed troops inside hospitals, and when it placed rocket launching pads in schools and on civilian buildings.
I hope you will agree with me that the Guardian’s coverage of the Middle East could be improved. Would it make sense were I to suggest that there would be profit in a meeting between yourself with other members of your editorial board and some well-informed people representing the Israeli position, to see if we can sort out some better system, a modus vivendi that would allow you to work more fairly in this area? I don’t mean that we would place the Guardian under any pressure to follow our line of thinking, but simply that it may help formulate your policy if we can explain areas of concern. I can contact all the main players on this side (though I don’t suggest a large meeting). You may continue to believe that the Guardian is quite unbiased, in which case I will have been wasting my breath (or my typing fingers). But no story has one side, and I only ask for a way to persuade you that this conflict too is multifaceted
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Yours,
Denis MacEoin
And Ribbans didn’t even have the decency to pen a response. Says it all really doesn’t it.






71 comments
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October 7, 2009 at 12:44 am
John Brown
CW – thanks for posting this extraordinary comprehensive and well-written article. I think I remember the week Denis MacEoin refers to – there were 26 articles – yes, I counted – on the site about Israel and the Palestinians, almost all if not all exactly as he has stated.
October 7, 2009 at 12:54 am
John Brown
By the way – I cannot recall the Guardian ever retracting the false reports it has issued about Jenin or other events.
As for Deir Yassin, what is never mentioned in the endless repetitions of half-baked histories that are circulated on CiF by pro-Arab commentators is that it was following by an attack by Arabs (and supported by or not prevented by British troops) which slaughtered some 79 Jews, mainly doctors and nurses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_medical_convoy_massacre
The Hadassah medical convoy massacre took place on April 13, 1948, when a convoy, escorted by Haganah militia, bringing medical and fortification supplies and personnel to Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus was ambushed by Arab forces.Seventy-nine Jewish residents of Mandate Palestine, mostly doctors and nurses, were killed in the attack.
October 7, 2009 at 1:19 am
GuardianIsEvil
Denis’ letter is too easy on the Guardian. It has published articles
- complaining that British Jews do not assimilate
- insisting European Jews must denounce themselves for supporting Israel
- terming ultra-Orthodox Jews child molesters
- attacking core Jewish institutions such as the JNF
- telling Jewish schools how to run their admissions policies.
In sum, the problem goes well beyond Denis’ excellent letter. The Guardian wants to cleanse Europe and the Mideast of any distinct trace of Jewish identity. It is another Stürmer.
October 7, 2009 at 2:04 am
JerusalemMite
John Brown.
I have read the letter before. It is inspiring that a non Jew can write a letter like that to an institution that used to be something else but has now become an obsessive rabid Israel hater.
I blame the present management cabal and would suggest that all Jews and non Jews employed there and not aligned with the GWV find other employment.
This site seems to be compiling a ‘file’ against The Guardian policies while providing a site where the comments that would not last on CIF can be displayed for all to see.
The Guardian is also obsessive about the United States of America too. The USA has broad shoulders and its successes and even superiority as the world superpower have a lot to be criticized. However, it has so much more that is good about it.
I can expect criticism of Israel. That is what I do all the time BUT, The Guardian seems to have set its sights on the one Liberal Western Democracy in the Middle East to incessantly attack every little cough and sneeze that we have.
All this while excluding our neighbors from any blame.
No problem writing there that Israel is an aparthied state when it so obviously is not.
There does seem a problem to write that The Prophet was a pedophile which is historical fact.
These are the depths to which The Guardian has sunk.
October 7, 2009 at 2:14 am
b752i
Another aspect of this argument is what the Guardian DOESN’T write. For example, in the week preceding Cast Lead, when Hamas was firing about 70 rockets per day from Gaza into Israel, the Guardian totally ignored the story, even though their full-time reporters in the area must have been aware of the implications of this escalation. A quick search of the Guardian archives shows that there were exactly two articles on Israel that week, both dealing with the upcoming elections. The only conclusion is that this omission was likely deliberate – either because of an unwillingness to criticize Hamas or a crude and pathetic attempt to create the impression that the inevitable Israeli reaction was unprovoked.
October 7, 2009 at 3:23 am
margie
Thank you cifwatch for posting this.
Dr MacEoin’s summing up of the situation is as convincing and honest as the moral codes he perceives and upholds.
Even on the internet Grub Street is still alive. The Guardian’s editorial policy as outlined here is simply to deny anything positive to Israel and to laud the evil of its enemies. The Guardian seeks to publish whatever feeds the appetites of the anti-Israeli public, not only in CiF which is the purview of this website but also in the newspaper at large.
October 7, 2009 at 3:28 am
sababa
This is an absolutely amazing letter. Of course one can argue that the Guardian is not a publicly funded media organization like the BBC, and that they can therefore do as they please. But this letter makes clear that they for sure know what they are doing.
b752i–good point, what’s not reported is also quite telling.
October 7, 2009 at 3:33 am
Fairplay
Thanks, Hawkeye, for this really superb letter by Denis MacEoin which I hadn’t read before. It says everything that needed to be said about the Guardian’s hostility to Israel and its supporters.
It’s remarkable that a few exceptional Irish writers or journalists in the past 30 years have managed to stand out against the popular anti-Israel/Jewish sentiment in the Irish Republic.
October 7, 2009 at 4:15 am
margie
I would like to draw the attention of UK residents and UK citizens to this petition., the title of which speaks for itself. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoToGoldstone/
October 7, 2009 at 4:24 am
peterthehungarian
Just a small illustration from today’s Guardian online from the unbiased Rory McCarthy:
The trouble began 10 days ago when crowds of young Palestinian men threw rocks at police, apparently after hearing that a group of religious Jews was about to enter the Haram al-Sharif, known to Jews as the Temple Mount , in the heart of Jerusalem’s Old City. Police fired teargas and rubber-coated bullets at the Palestinians and closed access to the holy site.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/06/israel-palestinian-clashes-sukkot
Does our learned Rory want to suggest that in the English narrative (the Guardian is supposed to be an British paper) the Temple Mount is called Haram al-Sharif and the name Temple Mount is only a translated expression from Hebrew and only known to Jews?
I can’t believe that a moron like him can be taken seriously but it seems to me that I’m mistaken – a lot of Guardian readers are happily eating his shit.
October 7, 2009 at 4:42 am
GaryO
I think Israel should evacuate all foreign (European) journalists from their luxury hotel accommodations in Tel Aviv and bus them to Sderot and Ashkelon from where they can pen their pro Hamas reports to their hearts content while ducking the Qassams.
Wonderful letter which I doubt Ribbans even took the trouble of opening.
October 7, 2009 at 4:51 am
JerusalemMite
It is warming to see the reactions to this letter here. I saw if in April of this year and wrote to Dennis MacEoin expressing my appreciation on behalf of the Jewish people for it.
Ribbans has a lot to learn.
October 7, 2009 at 5:07 am
cityca
What a marvelous letter. MacEion’s clear and concise setting out of the situation as he (and I) see it was a masterpiece and an inspiration. Thanks for publishing it here.
When I started blogging on CiF, my language and intention was non confrontational as well, although of course not in MacEion’s class. As time wore on and I became aware that it was not ignorance but malice that drove the Guardian’s agenda, my language and intention became a lot more confrontational – to the Guardian writers and the fools or worse that supported them. I think that goes for many others who now post to CiFWatch.
That Ribbans didn’t even respond speaks volumes – about her and about the editorial board of the Guardian.
Apparently, the Guardian is in financial trouble. Let’s hope its nothing trivial.
October 7, 2009 at 5:20 am
FoolMeOnce
Excellent piece by Mr. Denis MacEoin. Especially commendable coming from a native of Northern-Ireland, where we all know the sentiment towards Israel is not particularly friendly, as Israel is perceived there with the same prism they see Britain with- i.e. the side of the “oppressors”.
I always found especially infuriating the Guardian’s hosting of articles by active heads of terrorist organizations. Why is that even legal?
The Guardian also has this mean little way of legitimizing hateful, biased, fallacious and inflammatory articles by letting their “house Jews” write them. As if saying “Hey, if these folks think Israel is all evil, who are we to disagree?”
October 7, 2009 at 5:28 am
John
Thank you CiF for publishing this letter.
Ms Ribbans lack of manners is revealing – how busy is she that she couldn’t have got her PA to write a ‘thanks but no thanks’ response? I am sorry that the courteous Mr MacEoin wasted his time writing to her. I thank him on behalf of myself and my family.
I stopped buying and reading the paper a few years ago after McGreal’s two lazy and malevolant articles on the ‘Israel = apartheid” theme.
October 7, 2009 at 5:28 am
cityca
Thinking it through a bit more, the Guardian is the main source of advertising for the BBC jobs and government jobs too. With the downturn and the anticipated change in government next year, lets hope that advertising income dries up and blows away.
I wonder if it’s Guardian policy to denigrate Israel in the hope that a financial saviour will be found from among the Arab states or Muslim world? Perhaps Iran will hire not just Galloway but the editorial team too. Will Georgina Henry have to start wearing a hejab and Matt Seaton grow a full beard?
October 7, 2009 at 5:37 am
John
peterthehungarian:
Ah but it is one of the most holy sites for Islam and ‘arguably’ the most important for Judaism (S. Freedman).
GaryO:
They stay at the American Colony in Jerusalem. All mod cons plus full-on service plus the frisson of sharing the oppressive occupation in the company of the suffering Palestinians.
cityca:
“Apparently, the Guardian is in financial trouble. Let’s hope its nothing trivial.” My sentiments entirely.
October 7, 2009 at 6:34 am
b752i
“I stopped buying and reading the paper a few years ago after McGreal’s two lazy and malevolant articles on the ‘Israel = apartheid” theme”.
In which he made some nasty inferences about the SA Jewish community while conveniently ignoring the staggering number of British ex-pats that flocked to SA in the heyday of apartheid, obviouslywithout any twinge of politically-correct consciences.
October 7, 2009 at 6:45 am
Epidermoid
The dreadful massacre of doctors and nurses from the Haddasah Hospital took place 4 days after Deir Yassin but the Arabs did not say it had anything to do with action there which was what the British wanted to say.
The attack, which lasted seven hours, began at 9:30 a.m. and took place less than 600 feet from the British military post. The British watched from the sidelines. Jewish appeals for help were ignored until mid-afternoon. But by then the Jews had either been burned alive in buses or shot. There were 28 survivors, only eight had no injuries.
October 7, 2009 at 8:00 am
Ariadne
What a wonderful letter.
Something that parallels CW’s and Dr MacEoin’s pusrsuit of truth:
Efraim Karsh: What’s Behind Western Condemnation of Israel’s War Against Hamas?…
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Palestinian propagandists are no fools. They roll out the red carpet for that New York Times logo — and they double its width if the reporter happens to have a Jewish name.
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/fastsearch?query=jcpa
Edit/Find “Karsh”
October 7, 2009 at 8:01 am
Louise
Hawkeye
Thanks for publishing this
Maximum Respect to Denis MacEoin
October 7, 2009 at 8:07 am
Ariadne
Epidermoid
I think as much accurate history as is relevant should be posted here when people have the time.
I don’t think I’ve ever come across an Arab myth (to be polite) that hasn’t been debunked but on the internet the truth can be very time-consuming to find.
October 7, 2009 at 8:43 am
peterthehungarian
Ariadne
Speaking of Arab myths there is a new article on CIF about how the good Sheikh Salah Rai’d becoming popular with the Israeli Arabs accusing the Jews with destroying the Al-Aqsa mosque and ancient Muslim cemeteries.
October 7, 2009 at 8:45 am
Proud Zionist
Could not be said better.
This should be publicised until the Guardian are forced to respond, I’d like to see how they’d try to deny their bias.
October 7, 2009 at 9:36 am
SilverTrees
Excellent, CiFWatch. I have a lot of time for Denis MacEoin, who is measured and scholarly and at pains to make himself crystal clear on these issues. Israel is fortunate indeed to have such a person to speak out for her.
The following in particular summed up the thrust of the article for me:
“..Over the years, I have never sensed any warmth in the Guardian towards Israel, and I have been troubled by a string of reports and opinions celebrating the Palestinian ‘resistance’, touching at times on the defence of very real moral depravity, from anti-Semitism to suicide bombing to the launching of thousands of rockets on civilian centres…
Denis deals in facts which, as we have seen, he can evidence, rather than the deliberately malicious and supposition-laden dross dressed up as truth which the Guardinistas batten onto as if it were the law from Sinai. This places him head and shoulders above any commenter there about the I/P issue and he is absolutely right about the defence of antisemitic and other moral depravity by the Georgina Henry coven.
Also, there is
“…The thrust of my letter to the editor was, as you know, a hope that contextualization might help balance much of the Guardian’s reporting. Let me repeat this: the media are awash with allegations against Israel that are simply not true…”
A vain hope, obviously. One glance at the articles about Israel shows that their authors are not at all interested in the contextualisation of the conflict and that they wilfully ignore it because to acknowledge it might detract from their hate-filled diatribes. Nowhere is this more evident than the recent attempt by Tony Lerman to gloss over the serious inaequacies and outright lies in the travesty of a report on Cast Lead by Goldstone.
Like others, I am not surprised that Ribbans did not reply. She, like reprehensible Georgina Henry, would probably rather slit her own throat than admit in print that she was in the wrong.
October 7, 2009 at 10:44 am
The anti discriminator
JerusalemMite
.
## an institution that used to be something else but has now become an obsessive rabid Israel hater.##
.
That is institutional anti Semitism boom boom!
TAD
October 7, 2009 at 10:50 am
The anti discriminator
Denis
##It is not far-right indulgence of Israeli ‘fascism’ or worse that drives me, ##
.
To describe Israel in terms of “fascism” is surely anti Semitic ..seeing as the UK/US have killed way more and no one calls them fascist…so has Russia. I thought CIFwatch existed to fight anti Semitism.
No to antiSemitism on CIFwatch!
TAD
October 7, 2009 at 11:55 am
Sergio Bramsole
Top notch work.
October 7, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Augie
I noticed that the BBC didn’t post the story about an Israeli woman winning the Nobel prize for chemistry in its headlines/
Did the Guardian?
October 7, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Sergio Bramsole
It’s there, Augie, but you have to search for the article. Here you go.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/oct/07/nobel-prize-chemistry-2009
October 7, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Sergio Bramsole
Avram Grant is back in Portsmouth.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/07/avram-grant-portsmouth-paul-hart
Mazal tov
October 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm
peterthehungarian
Berchmans the anti discriminator
I posted this on an other thread of this site and I want to be sure that you read it so I’m going to post it again here.
I used to ignore your posts on CIF because they are without any substance, they show your amazing ignorance – remember using Turkish names for Arab players in your stupid and anti-Semite psychodramas and suggesting that Israeli Arab citizens have no voting rights? Maybe the best example of your total lack of any factual knowledge is your post on Freedman’s thread calling the Jerusalem rioters un-Islamic. You haven’t a clue about Islam, about its history, art, science, religious principles and requirements. To make a long story short you are the worst kind of provocateur evidently supported by the CIF staff. But here I know that my criticism of your extremely stupid bullshit won’t be deleted (try to report them to the site owners – it seems to me they are not like your benevolent Bolshevik protectors on CIF – here comment is really free) so let me say something to you.
When you are trying to protect the anti-Semitism of the Muslims in general and of Hamas in particular saying that “if the tank drivers were Buddhists then they’d be anti-Buddhists” (many of the bulldozer drivers are Druze Arabs BTW – naturally you didn’t know this either) you are saying this:
“I understand that Italians hate Roma people – many pickpockets in Rome are Gypsies”
I empathise with the Aryan Nation – there are many black criminals”
“I understand LaRit’s hate of Jews – her Jewish landlord was a greedy bastard”
An other problem with this diamond of your wisdom is the sad fact that in every Muslim country where medieval and modern anti-Semitism are widespread and government supported – people never in their life have seen or met Israeli soldiers, tanks, bulldozers whatever – even not a Jewish person.
If in your alcohol saturated brain the fact that you don’t hate every Jews only the huge majority who stand up for themshelves and don’t allow you to play the big protector of the oppressed and the weak (naturally it depends who is the oppressor – your Bolshevik and/or Muslim heroes or your enemies) means that you are not an antiSemite then suit yourself.
As a real Bolshevik who naturally familiar with Marxist theory (I wonder that in this subject you are as learned as in Islam or the ME) you certainly know that truth is an objective idea and doesn’t depend on subjective wishes.)
And now go back to CIF to report to your minders.
After posting it I remembered your idiotic experiments trying to deny the existence of anti-Semitic rants in the soooo Islamic Hamas charter. When posters sent you links to different sites you answerede that these translations have been made by Israelis (these inglorious basterds) and as such they are not reliable. When someone sent you the translation performed by the Yale University you simply disappeared from the thread and next day on an other thread started the circus again that there is no evidence… there is no reliable translation… the charter has been revoked by Hamas (you know it perfectly well that this is a bullshit)… that you will write a poem praising the IDF if somebody really able to prove that this charter is existing at all…
Please be aware, on this website you are as popular as the swine-flu
October 7, 2009 at 1:07 pm
TomWonacott
There is not much more that can be added to this letter. Its an indictment not only against the Guardian, but the media, in general. The media is in a powerful position to influence public opinion. Who can forget France 2 television reporting on the shooting death (by the Israeli army) of Mohammed al-Dura the 12 year old Palestinian boy? The consequences of that story were catastrophic. The story contributed to the start of the second intifada in which over 6500 people were killed. The story has been called a fake.
The media has a huge responsibility with potentially deadly consequences. The media (and especially the Guardian) biases their stories and their commentary for political purposes. The fake story of the Palestinian throwing the rock is just sickening, but is this kind of agenda driven reporting really that uncommon? It doesn’t seem to be. Lying, or twisting the truth, seems to be OK if its for a cause. Lies on page one are retracted on page forty seven. Isn’t that the same as saying that lying is OK if it brings about the desired change?
What do they teach in Journalism now a days? Do they teach anything about ethics?
October 7, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Jonny Moses
Lucid, calm, courteous, and incisive. Mr Maceoin is a moral and intellectual powerhouse. This letter is a counterpunch to the self-indulgent, sloppy pseudo intellectualism that hides the bigotted, self-righteous mindset at the core of the Guardian cabal.
By publishing letters like Mr Maceoin’s, this site is doing a great job in exposing the arrogant and fascistic tendancies that have allowed the Guardian to dismiss, ignore or denounce anything that supports a more balanced narrative on Israel with impunity.
Mr Maceoin in a thinking person’s hero for common decency.
October 7, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Ariadne
Margie
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=commentisfreewatch.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetitions.number10.gov.uk%2FNoToGoldstone%2F
The petition had 599 signatures when I looked about half an hour ago.
October 7, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Ariadne
peterthe hungarian
I read the article and all I can say is that the sooner Israel kicks out the assorted Arabs who want it all and ends the Wakf’s control the better. But neither thing is going to happen.
I do remember when Abu Tir was booted out. He didn’t last very long in Gaza.
October 7, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Ariadne
He was arrested but…
Raed Salah and PA incitement:
On Tuesday night, the Israeli Islamic leader Raed Salah was arrested on charges of inciting the rampage on Temple Mount. The flashpoint now threatens to be this Friday’s prayers after Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood (and the ‘moderate’ infamously embraced in London by Ken Livingstone), called for Arabs and Muslims to make next Friday a
day of anger… to confront the ferocious Zionist attack against the Aqsa Mosque and the occupied city of Jerusalem.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5404046/the-incitement-towards-a-third-intifada.thtml
October 7, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Ariadne
654 sigs on the petition now
October 7, 2009 at 9:27 pm
StickyMickey
Interesting thread.
So was there a massacre at Deir Yassin or is it a “myth” as MacEoin claims?
October 7, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Guardian Hates Jews
IdiotMickey, there was no “massacre” at Deir Yassin. There was a battle in an Arab-declared civil war, in which both Jewish and Arab lives were lost.
MacEoin’s point stands: Jewish deaths in the long Arab war to genocide Jews, are not noteworthy to the European press. Arab deaths in that same Arab-declared war, are claimed “massacres” or “genocide”.
It’s all a bunch of anti-Semitic bullsh-t. Europe just cannot get over the fact that it failed to eliminate the Jewish race, and that the Jews now have the power to prevent that.
F-ck British anti-Semites and their leaders at the Guardian.
October 8, 2009 at 1:51 am
sababa
Sticky, don’t you worry: in 1947-48, just 2-3 years after Europe’s concentration camps stopped to work, the Arabs managed to kill 1 percent of Israel’s Jewish population — some of them Holocaust survivors. Granted, in view of what the Arabs said they hoped to achieve, that was far below their dream results, and no doubt you would have wished them more success, but still, to kill off about one percent of a population in one year — that should be enough to give you at least some satisfaction, no? And yet another reason for you to cheer up is that one of the guys who called the shots on the Arab side was a guy who was wanted in the dock for the Nuremberg trials — instead, he was directing the Palestinian “resistance”: so you see, there was at least some of the kind of “justice” you would like to see prevail.
October 8, 2009 at 10:55 am
The anti discriminator
Guardian Hates Jews
.
## Europe just cannot get over the fact that it failed to eliminate the Jewish race,##
.
. Speaking from a European country that has a pretty good history on the subject ..whose people were brutalised and battered trying to stop Hitler I really have to complain .
I am really sorry we couldnt have done more.. it was clear then what was going on …we should have …but at least we feckin tried.
Uncle Danny and Uncle Tommy RIP
TAD
October 8, 2009 at 11:05 am
The anti discriminator
peterthehungarian
.
## After posting it I remembered your idiotic experiments trying to deny the existence of anti-Semitic rants Islamic Hamas charter. ##
.
You are confusing me with a complete idiot of the same name! Of course they are anti Semitic…my point is.. was and will be… that Catholics would be hated if their beam ends were in the seats of the bulldozers.
I have made this point a hundred times on CIF yet no one has ever taken me on. I have made it a few times here …same number of people scrambling to answer. Why do you think that would be?
Here is to CIF watch …first to notice some kinds of discrimination.
TAD
October 8, 2009 at 11:54 am
SilverTrees
“Here is to CIF watch …first to notice some kinds of discrimination.”
Thank you Berchmans.
Now all that remains for you, CiF’s kack-handed ambassador here, (and boy, must they be desperate!) is to go back to your masters and encourage the Henry coven to notice and expunge all the antisemitic racism on their pages and in their archives.
If they are really dilligent they will include in that certain of your cock-eyed posts too like the one which doesn’t blame Hamas for hating Jews.
It may take them some time and cause them much grief but not as much as it has caused to the decent Jews and other civilised people who have had to argue against it.
Now, go back there and tell this to your masters – there’s a good chap.
October 8, 2009 at 1:14 pm
peterthehungarian
Berchmans
You are confusing me with a complete idiot of the same name!
Confusing? You? With a complete idiot?
This would be something like to build a perpetuum mobile.
October 8, 2009 at 1:21 pm
peterthehungarian
Berchmans
Speaking from a European country that has a pretty good history on the subject ..whose people were brutalised and battered trying to stop Hitler I really have to complain
Your stupidity becomes more robust day by day.
Are you suggesting that the UK went to war in order to eliminate Nazism and save the Jews!?
Not because protect their colonies and political influence in Europe?
I learn every day something new from you…
October 8, 2009 at 1:48 pm
peterthehungarian
Berchmans
An other fantastic lightning stroke of your intellect.
You lament:
…my point is.. was and will be… that Catholics would be hated if their beam ends were in the seats of the bulldozers.
I repeat the relevant part of my post. This is the third time and for adults it can be boring, but for you I’ll do everything:
When you are trying to protect the anti-Semitism of the Muslims in general and of Hamas in particular saying that “if the tank drivers were Buddhists then they’d be anti-Buddhists” (many of the bulldozer drivers are Druze Arabs BTW – naturally you didn’t know this either) you are saying this:
“I understand that Italians hate Roma people – many pickpockets in Rome are Gypsies”
I empathise with the Aryan Nation – there are many black criminals”
“I understand LaRit’s hate of Jews – her Jewish landlord was a greedy bastard”
An other problem with this diamond of your wisdom is the sad fact that in every Muslim country where medieval and modern anti-Semitism are widespread and government supported – people never in their life have seen or met Israeli soldiers, tanks, bulldozers whatever – even not a Jewish person.
October 8, 2009 at 1:49 pm
SilverTrees
“…I learn every day something new from you…”
Oh for heaven’s sake, peterthehungarian, don’t encourage him! He’ll be starting to think he has a brain next!
October 8, 2009 at 2:39 pm
The anti discriminator
SilverTrees
##Oh for heaven’s sake, peterthehungarian, don’t encourage him! He’ll be starting to think he has a brain next!##
Too late!
TAD
PS ..OK Peter failed ..you try it smart guy ..you answer…would the Palestinians hate Catholics if they were painting the UNHQ white? I am beginning to think that it is the unanswerable question.
PPSNo one can answer this … what a bunch you lot are…I bet there are lawyers doctors and teachers amongst you and I can gub you all with one question.
PPPS and yes I remember you and what a slekit, cowardly and horrible thing you did to silence me….you picked the wrong anti Semite!
October 8, 2009 at 2:46 pm
SilverTrees
Berchmans
Get a grip!
I am not entering discussions with you about anything.
Why? Because it’d be like pulling wisdom teeth with tweezers
It seems that you are somewhat in your cups.
Go and lie down. You’re making even more of an idiot of yourself than usual.