This is a guest post from Jonathan Hoffman
Tony Lerman published a piece this morning about self-haters.
He called the concept “bogus and bankrupt”. Many respectable commentators of course would disagree.
What astonished me – having read Robin Shepherd’s excellent new book, reviewed here recently – was Lerman’s misrepresentation of the book. Lerman says
And Robin Shepherd, of the Henry Jackson Society, in a thoroughly wrong-headed book out this month subtitled Europe’s Problem With Israel, uses the concept to explain why leftwing Jews “publicly turn against Israel”.
Shepherd says nothing of the sort. He explains Jewish anti-Zionism by suggesting that there are some Jews whose identity as members of the ‘radical Left’ dominates their identification with the Jewish State.
And look how Lerman avoids giving the full title of the book (‘A State Beyond The Pale’) – he only gives the subtitle – how nasty is that! Civilised authors reference all books to which they refer, even those with which they disagree.
Of course the misrepresentation gets compounded in the comments below the article. Here is the first one from “Lord SummerIsle”:
Whenever I hear the words ’self hating Jew’ used seriously in an argument I tend to assume the speaker is both anti-semitic and stupid. It is a truly moronic assertion for one person to make about another.
So Shepherd is defamed on the basis of Lerman’s misrepresentation!
You would have thought that the Guardian would have been only too willing to offer Shepherd the ‘right of correction’, wouldn’t you? Especially as they always tell us they are looking for articles to show that they are not institutionally antisemitic. But look what happened when Shepherd asked for the ‘right of correction’.
First, Shepherd asked for the right of reply. This arose – he said – from a disgraceful distortion of the arguments in his book. More broadly, he said, his book is a civilisational critique which argues that European civilisation is so weakened, relatavistic and enervated that it simply cannot deal with the issues the Israel-Palestine conflict throws up. Clearly (he said) the thrust of his thinking goes right against the grain of most of the Guardian’s contributors. He added that Lerman’s failure to mention the book’s title was clearly a way of attacking the book and its author while not giving readers the proper reference point so they can make up their own minds. These – he said – are the tactics of the propagandist, not the respected journalist. He suggested that the Guardian should have known better than to allow this. Or – he wondered – did it just slip through the cracks?
However the Guardian rejected his offer to write a piece even though Shepherd had made it clear that the piece would not be a full response piece on the single misrepresentation issue.
Shepherd had a debate with Lerman on the book on BBC Radio 3’s ‘Nightwaves’ last Wednesday. Shepherd pointed out to the Guardian that Lerman had made the same false allegations on that and a host of other issues about the book. But at least – Shepherd said – he had had on Radio 3 the opportunity to expose Lerman, while providing listeners with an alternative point of view on Europe, Israel and the Jews. Lerman paid the price – said Shepherd: something he can avoid inside ‘Comment is Free’, and he knows it. Shepherd asked the Guardian if he should draw the conclusion that the robustness of his position and its political leanings are too difficult for its readers and/or journalists to cope with? He noted that the Guardian had said nothing about Lerman’s failure to reference his book properly. He suggested it was a cynical ploy designed to make it difficult for the reader to look at the book and make up his/her own mind.
The Guardian’s response – of course – was to accuse Shepherd of bullying:
You can draw whatever conclusions you like, but you might reflect whether this kind of approach – which I would characterise, putting it mildly as browbeating – is more or less likely to get you the commission you seek.
Shepherd’s closing was to suggest that the Guardian knows the reason why his and other offerings are almost always turned down. It is because the editors are quite well aware that their stable of Israel-bashers is not analytically strong enough to shoulder the burden of serious debate. A serious challenge would expose them and expose the Guardian. So they run away from it, apart from very occasional items from a more pro-Israeli position in order to preserve the veneer of being a “broad church”.
Shepherd told them that he was not looking for crumbs from their table. The writing on this topic in the Guardian – he said – is as shameful as it is shallow. He was asking for a right to reply and offering an alternative point of view. Serious media outlets understand the point, he suggested. He expressed gratitude for such useful evidence to back up his long-standing observations about the Guardian.
What an indictment of the third word (‘Free’) of ‘Comment is Free’!
What better evidence could there be of The Guardian’s institutional bias against Jews and Israel and its unwillingness to confront antisemitic discourse?
Yet again: Shame on you, Seaton, Whitaker and Henry!
50 comments
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October 5, 2009 at 10:23 am
b752i
“Shepherd pointed out to the Guardian…”
“The Guardian’s response – of course – was to accuse Shepherd of bullying”
… etc.
Where and when did this dialog take place? Can you provide links?
October 5, 2009 at 10:31 am
Jonathan Hoffman
It is from an oral dialogue.
October 5, 2009 at 10:40 am
zamalek
One only hopes that CiFwatch can become an ‘alternative’ forum to CiF, showcasing those articles which W, S and H dare not touch
October 5, 2009 at 10:52 am
Tr6886uy7
http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/
Robin Shepherd has an interesting post on this……
October 5, 2009 at 11:06 am
FredGrubnik
Anthony Lerman has made a career of glorifying himself as the world’s only morally righteous Jews. He considers all other Jews (with the exception of Richard Goldstone) to be tribalistic, parochial and rather brutish folks who seem to embarass him. Most particularly, the citizens of Israel, with their brashness and proud view of themselves, seems to arouse the most deepseated anger in Lerman. That explains why he recently dismissed the State of Israel as “the neighborhood bully.” It explains his almost romantic embrace of everything Palestinian and his rejection of everything Israeli. Mr. Lerman, like Mr. Goldstone, seems obsessed with being accepted in the salons of Europe and to be accepted the people who really matter. Perhaps Mr. Lerman thinks that his latest column will win him a lecture spot at Davos one year. But I suspect that won’t happen. The organizers of the Davos Conference like to invite lecturers who are interesting.
October 5, 2009 at 11:22 am
Ariadne
How shocking. The language Lerman uses is unoriginal and his idea of Jews whose views you don’t agree with exactly reflects the syntactic structure used by the BNP and their friends. “X said that’s antisemitic because s/he doesn’t agree with it”. It’s puerile.
It seems to me that people actually have to be able to thiink in order to debate. I don’t know whether his phrase “intellectual laziness” is meant to refer also to Robert Wistrich and Jonathan Sacks. What is it that they and Robn Shepherd are supposed to think to show otherwise? What knowledge are they to bring to bear to understand Jews hating other Jews? Not Jewish history and not spotting the great lacunae and imbalance in the Goldstone report?
Lerman might have simply said “Don’t shoot the messenger”, but he seems to suffer from too much bile for that. He seems original in using the phrase “the ugly desperation of the accusers” but given the time in which he is writing is that better than Herzl’s remarks? All Goldstone has turned out to be is a messenger for the antisemitic UN.
Lerman is of course shooting a lot of messengers himself. Why does he need to? Because they are dealing with the truth of what Goldstone “found”?
Maybe such articles are not intended to lead to debate. Many seem to be begging for a good debunking. So, carry on CiF Watch!
As for the “commission you seek” above: that adds insult. The word occurring as often as I read these haters is “venal”.
October 5, 2009 at 11:34 am
SnoopyTheGoon
There is one aspect of this thread that I would like to separate. I mean the whole business of the “self hating Jews” term, which I consider wrong, used too freely and harmful to the point that the person who uses it tries to prove. Unfortunately, much as I revile Antony Lerman, I have to agree with what he says on the subject of the unbridled use of this term. Antony Lerman himself, by the way, is a typical example of self-serving Jew milking the questionable CiF publicity to the last drop.
I have written a post on this irritating subject some time ago.
http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2007/07/self-hating-jew-terminology-issue.html
I still believe that we are giving our opponents a handle to use quite easily to derail any discussion, when we call them self hating Jews. Too bad.
October 5, 2009 at 11:48 am
Jonathan Hoffman
http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#more-1268
@b752i
Note that Shepherd has confirmed my account on his blog
October 5, 2009 at 11:58 am
JerusalemMite
Snoopy – I mean the whole business of the “self hating Jews” term, which I consider wrong, used too freely and harmful to the point that the person who uses it tries to prove.
When a Jew prostitutes his Jewishness with writing article after article which demonise the Jewish People and he does it in a ‘container’ like the Guardian which is obsessive about any and all negativity in Israel, that would be a ’self hating Jew’.
If he confined his articles mainly to the Jewish and Israeli media as Gideon Levy does, then his is simply and extreme detached anarchist lefty. There is quite a difference. Gideon Levy is very often laughed at but he does command wide respect for standing up for his unpopular extremist views in public Jewish and Israeli forums.
October 5, 2009 at 12:06 pm
&76%$
Seth Freedman homing in on what he calls “anti-miscegenation squads” (Nazi term) to feed the slavering Guardian Jewbaiters is a good example of a self-hater.
October 5, 2009 at 12:09 pm
cityca
I think Lerman, by only giving the subtitle of Shepherd’s book in his article, betrayed himself and his mean spirited, small minded nature. If he believed Shepherd to be wrong, allow others to come to their own conclusions, or does he have no faith is his own argument?
Self hating Jew is not a pleasant term and its not accurate. Someone posting beneath his article suggested that Lerman is more of a self loving that self hating Jew.
A more accurate description is a ‘house Jew’, just as Goldstone, by accepting the UNHCR job is now a ‘house Jew’ for the UN.
If even Mary Robinson of Ireland, who’s no friend of Israel, was incredulous that Goldstone could accept this tainted job, where on earth was Goldstone’s sense and discrimination?
October 5, 2009 at 12:24 pm
SnoopyTheGoon
JerusalemMite,
Frankly, I don’t understand your proof of Lerman being self hating. Again, the term is not useful in any way when dissecting Lerman. It is not that difficult to argue his point, if you care, of course. It is just not necessary, and the term itself is in the realm where only a qualified psychiatrist can rule. I am not and I don’t know about you.
As for the difference between Lerman and Levy: from empiric point of view (I am sorry, I got my schooling in a precise science), there is precious little difference. Unless you take into account that Levy, being translated to English, has a much bigger audience, his Haaretz articles are used all over the world by the anti-Israeli crowd.
The best proof of the point I am trying to make is that Lerman’s article, where he addresses mainly the issue of whether Goldstone is or isn’t a self hating Jew, instead of trying to prove that Goldstone’s report was correct. Think which is more difficult to do and you may come to see whether I am right.
October 5, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Sid Bachrach
Anthony Lerman might be dismissed as just one more leftist intellectual who joins the pack in condemning Israel. But he is far more than that. lerman’s use of the most vituperative words and phrases to describe Israel and Israelis show a kind of special anger toward Jews and, I suspect, a deep identity crisis within himself. As others have pointed out, he recently denisgrated the State of Israel by snidely calling it “the neighborhood bully”. He constantly refers to Israelis as swaggering bullies. The whole concept of a strong Jew who can and will defend himself causes embarassment to Lerman. It is obvious that Anthony Lerman feels deeply conflicted about himself and won’t admit even to himself. I suspect that he does know, deep within his soul, that he is fighting demons that have burned within him for many years. How else, does one explain, his perfervid endorsements of the most vile antiIsrael commentators and his associationw with such people as Ben White. He does not seem to understand that when they make their comments ridiculing Israelis and proIsrael Jews and Lerman joins in their merriment, he is really showing contempt for himself. Lerman’s life story seems to be based on a desire to shout “I am not one of them” from the highest mountaintop.
October 5, 2009 at 12:47 pm
JerusalemMite
Snoopy – As for the difference between Lerman and Levy: from empiric point of view (I am sorry, I got my schooling in a precise science), there is precious little difference. Unless you take into account that Levy, being translated to English, has a much bigger audience, his Haaretz articles are used all over the world by the anti-Israeli crowd.
Gideon Levy is a journalist. His articles are syndicated. I wonder if Sethele’s or Lerman’s ‘articles’ are picked up all over the world by ‘by the anti-Israeli crowd.’ Excluding ‘Press TV’ of course.
October 5, 2009 at 12:51 pm
SnoopyTheGoon
JerusalemMite – agreed.
October 5, 2009 at 12:58 pm
SnoopyTheGoon
Sid,
I like you dissection of this character. I would add that, as several other British Jews (but not only British), Lerman is fervently wishing to become one with the surrounding environment. For people like him the mere existence of Israel (of course he quietly hates this fact), these bullies that dare to be different, is a constant pain in the arse.
His incessant attacks on Israel are, of course, beyond any call of duty, belief or ideology.
But self hating he is not. The opposite is true, in my opinion.
October 5, 2009 at 1:04 pm
margie
Here’s a question: who do you think the obnoxious beonthedonis writes as?
could it be shameless milne?
October 5, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Chas N-B
Tony Lerman also quotes Benjamin Netanyahu in his article as calling two senior Obama aides as “self-hating Jews”. Netanyahu confirmed two weeks ago that he did not say this of them and does not think this of them.
CiF gleefully commissioned a Hamas terrorist to write for them a year or two back (and the editor who commissioned it threw a tantrum when I asked him how he could justify this) yet they will not allow Shepherd the right of reply.
You are right, there is an institutional bias against Israel and Jews at CiF. There is also an institutional contempt for their own readers, who they treat like moronic racists. Justifiably so in some cases, I admit.
October 5, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Chas N-B
Entirely on a sidenote, I do think that no Gentile – however pro-Israel – has any business whatsoever accusing any Jewish person of being ‘a self-hating Jew’.
I know Shepherd did no such thing, I’m just saying this on a sidenote.
October 5, 2009 at 1:28 pm
GuardianIsEvil
I think there now remains little doubt that the Guardian is a fundamentally and incorrigibly corrupt institution – lying, slandering, racist, defamatory, and anti-Semitic to the core, obsessed with wiping any distinct Jewish identity from the pages of history.
October 5, 2009 at 1:29 pm
SilverTrees
Excellent, Jonathan.
Lerman has shown himself to be utterly and completely morally bankrupt and unprincipled himself.
I believe that Lerman’s paranoid projection is playing itself out for all to see on CiF. He is utterly in denial when he calls the concept of Jewish self-hatred bogus and bankrupt. He is known for minimising the effects of antisemitism and/or blaming Israel for its increase. That is the sort of hatred of his people which drives such a person to write as he does on CiF
There is a saying that there is no advocate of virginity like a reformed whore.
We often read Lerman inveighing against Israel, but we have to remember that Lerman used to be a senior youth leader in a Zionist youth group. He is of course entitled to change his political views and to write about them, but now instead of advocating the equivalent of virginity (which in the case of Israel should be a self-imposed moratorium on his adding to the lies about her), Lerman has turned himself into an anti-Zionist whore who sells himself and to CiF and lies there by omission and commission, all the while knowing full well that what he says will be adopted wholesale by Jew-hating mouth breathers below the line.
One such as he, who opens the door to hatred of his people on a blog which gives column inches to Jew-haters, can indeed be termed a Jew-hating Jew (he clearly does not hate himself but other Zionist Jews, and he obviously believes that his questionable pearls of wisdom on the topic are worthy of writing to CiF about).
And his mindless support of Goldstone is further evidence that he is slowly but surely slipping his moorings:
1) What intelligent individual would laud and applaud the author of a report which is so blatantly biased and lacking in even a scintilla of objectivity because that report lambasts Israel? Why should he be so selective and ignore the inaccuracies and biases of the Goldstone report if not to please his Guardian masters?
2) Lerman conveniently failed to mention that one member of the UN Mission, Christine Chinkin, had compromised the neutrality of it as early as January 2009 by adding her signature to a letter to the “Sunday Times” in which Israel was accused of engaging in war crimes and yet Goldstone refused to recuse her.
3) Neither did he mention a particularly glaring faux pas of Goldstone’s as long ago as 1995 (and which for any international body other than the UN should have rung very loud warning bells), wherein he indicted “Gruban Malic” a fictional character, and a dead man, for war crimes against Muslims in Bosnia, see:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133631
In 1998, even after the true identity of the “war criminal” was known, the charges against “Gruban Malic” were officially dropped for lack of evidence by Goldstone’s successor. Thirteen other flesh-and-blood Serbs were also taken off the same ICTY indictment docket alongside “Gruban” – including a man that Goldstone indicted several years after he had already died!
Rumour has it that Goldstone sold his soul and what passes for his reputation because he wants a UN post. There’s something here for me about him not being allowed to join any club which would have him as a member.
I am sorry that Robin Shepherd was not afforded the right to reply to Lerman’s egregious nonsense but not at all surprised. Perhaps one way to get it is to threaten to sue al-Grauniad for defamation unless they offer it – I seem to remember that David T of Harry’s Place got the chance to put the Bungler back in his cave after Bungler had defamed him there by saying that he would not sue if CiF let him post a counter article. If I am wrong about that, no doubt someone will let me know.
October 5, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Israelinurse
The term ’self-hating Jew’ is perfectly adequate in my view. We are witness to a rise in the numbers and vocal protestations of such people precisely because of the rise in anti-Semitism over the past few years. As anti-Semitism becomes more widespread and mainstream, those interested in saving their own skins by the process of assimilation will always be in a hurry to distance themselves from the subject of hatred. They accomplish this by stating ‘Look! I am not like them; I do not posess the qualities which you revile and hate!’. They are in fact reacting to the stereotypes inflicted upon their race.
Both Lerman and Goldstone are in fact saying to the world that they personally belong with the ‘civilised’ West which disapproves of war and killing. They wish with all their hearts to distance themselves from those ‘uncivilised’ Eastern Jews in Israel who engage in such practices.
Let’s not forget either that the Left has never been able to come up with any sort of solution to anti-Semitism: from Lenin onwards the Left’s prescription has been that the Jews must assimilate in order to avoid persecution – i.e. Jewry must obliterate itself in order not to be oppressed.
Assimilation is of course the satisfaction of bigots by becoming un-Jewish; it is giving up the fight against anti-Semitism.
Much of the Left seems to adopt this stance not only at a personal level, but prescribes the same ’solution’ for the Jewish state too; a one-state solution would be the equivalent of assimilation at a personal level – a rejection of Jewishness.
Fortunately, there are enough of us who are proud of our identity to negate the pernicious effects of those Jews who reject theirs.
October 5, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Chas N-B
For me it’s very sad. I’ve never been a Guardian reader per se, but I guess as a politics and journalism student in the 1990s I had an idealistic sense they were the good guys or something like that when it came to racism and so on.
And now we have the likes of Richard Littlejohn and Melanie Phillips being the good guys on Israel and antisemitism, and the Guardian being thoroughly racist. Also, when they promote Islamism at the Guardian, they are effectively promoting misogny and homophobia.
The Guardian is unrecognisable now from the paper I used to believe it to be. I use that phrasing because it might be that I was wrong all the time. However, something has surely changed there?
CiFWatch is getting better and better. It’s great to read these articles and that the problems at CiF are approached in such an honest and positive way. You’re shining a light.
October 5, 2009 at 1:44 pm
peterthehungarian
Lerman really called Israel the neighborhood bylly?
He is correct. In according to Bob Dylan:
Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man,
His enemies say he’s on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive.
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin,
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He’s wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He’s always on trial for just being born.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
‘Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
What’s anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin’, they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He’s the neighborhood bully.
What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.
October 5, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Irish
Margie
Beaton contributes as Beatonthedonis.
October 5, 2009 at 2:32 pm
FredGrubnik
Yes, Lerman did refer to Israel as “the neighborhood bully” only about two weeks ago. Lerman never used such language to describe Syria’s 34 year occupation of Lebanon. Even Lebanese who disliked Israel detested the Syrian occupation. It was not only Hariri the Syrians killed. There were countless other Lebanese who died from Syrian hands. Lerman has never devoted a column to Syrian misconduct. It is only Israel that earns the wrath of Lerman. Because so many other nation states fail to live up to the lofty standards that Lerman demands of Israel, logically one would expect Lerman to write a column about them also. But of course he does not. Lerman loves the role of being “the Jewish dissenter”. It gets him invited to places that an ordinary proIsrael Jew would never be invited. Perhaps it gets Lerman invited to tea parties where jokes about Jews are told and Lerman can join the good natured grinning and laughter. Some years ago, a British professor of medicine at Oxford named Andrew Wilkie sent an Israeli student a letter rejecting the Israeli student’s application to work in Dr. Wilkie’s laboratory. Dr. Wilkie explained that he (Dr. Wilkie) would not feel comfortable with an Israeli student in the laboroatory. Dr. Wilkie was later disciplined. I am sure that Dr. Wilkie would be the type of person that Tony Lerman yearns to associate with. Tony Lerman’s colleague at the Guardian, Ben White, said that he (White) “understood” why people can become antiSemites. Lerman said nothing in rebuttal. Lerman’s need to engage in social climbing is clearly behind the wildly excessive antiIsrael rhetoric he employes. I have read nothing in Al Ahram that remotely rivals the harshness of what Tony Lerman says about Israel or about Jews who support Israel.
October 5, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Marc M.
Tony Lerman represents a small segment within the Jewish community of Jewish journalists who decide to become promiment by making their reputation as “Jewish critics of Israel”. After pronouncing themselves as “Jewish dissenters”, these journalists then demand congratulations and applause for their supposed act of courage. Mr. Lerman brags about his willingness to stand up to the “organized” Jewish community and dotes on his role of the great dissenter. Of course, Lerman has never faced any threat of job loss or any other professional problem as a result of his Israel bashing. In fact, his stature at the Guardian improves exponentially. The Guardian trumpets Lerman as its Jewish “voice of conscience”. And for Lerman there is the thrill of being accepted by a WASP aristocracy that he likely yearned for throughout his formative years. Lerman’s contempt for Israel is so illogical that the psychological narrative playing out is the only logical reason for his behavior. I have traveled widely in Jordan and never once in Jordan did I hear the venomous words that Tony Lerman uses for Israel. Yes, I heard words calling for withdrawals to the pre 1967 border but nothing like the ideological fervor of Tony Lerman.
October 5, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Demeter
FredGrubnick, if you are right about Lerman then he is the sort of narcissist who should feel very much at home in the CiF house Jew stable.
And I found this about Goldstone on ArutzSheva:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133690
We find that
“..Goldstone headed a panel on behalf of the United Nations Human Rights Commission, which issued a report accusing the IDF of committing “war crimes” against residents of Gaza…” (I have read the report and yes, indeed it does).
However in his interview with ArutzSheva, we get:
“… In general, he [Goldstone] said, he believed Israel had the wrong idea about his mission. “We didn’t question the right [of Israel] to defend itself, we looked at the method,” he said.
“Goldstone added that despite the report, Israel’s actions could not be compared to war crimes around the world that have taken place in recent years, such as those committed in Yugoslavia. “I don’t like making comparisons,” he said. (Pardon me??)
“He added that Israel’s relationship to Gaza ‘is also not apartheid. I don’t like that comparison, there are some similarities but there are more differences.’
What a pity then that Goldstone lent his name to something which actually said quite the opposite. In fact, I am beginning to wonder whether he even read the report before he gave it his imprimatur.
What are we supposed to make of this? We have a UN mission to Gaza, headed by a man who had in the past indicted a fictional character and a dead man for war crimes, and had been well aware but had ignored the obvious bias of one of the members of the mission but had refused to recuse her. However,because he says that he “loves Israel” we are expected to overlook the damage that his report has done and the lies in it?
And all this happened, according to Goldstone, because he “loves Israel?”
I shudder to think what might have been printed in his name had he hated her.
October 5, 2009 at 3:18 pm
margie
I have just read this quotation on Harry’s Place and it strikes me as fitting this conversation. There are people who have forgotten the situation of the Jews before Israel.
We have honestly endeavored everywhere to merge ourselves in the social life of surrounding communities and to preserve the faith of our fathers. We are not permitted to do so. In vain are we loyal patriots, our loyalty in some places running to extremes; in vain do we make the same sacrifices of life and property as our fellow citizens; in vain do we strive to increase the fame of our native land in science and art, or her wealth by trade and commerce. In countries where we have lived for centuries we are still cried down as strangers, and often by those whose ancestors were not yet domiciled in the land where Jews had already had experience of suffering.
Theodore Herzl
The Jewish State
October 5, 2009 at 3:25 pm
sababa
Many good posts here; I’m sort of used to agree with Snoopy, but IsraeliNurse makes some very good points, I have to say. Though, what distinguishes the Lermans, Silversteins, and Freedmans of the Cif-world is that they are all so terribly self-righteous and so intolerably preachy.
Considering how much space Cif has for anti-Israel writers, it’s really beyond belief that they turned down Shepherd’s request to have the chance to correct the false impressions Lerman tried to create — well, it’s not exactly a first for Lerman: not that long ago, he had a piece where he recounted some event in London where also Jonathan Freedland was present, and Freedland took the trouble to appear on the thread to say that things had not been exactly the way Lerman portrayed them… Also one or two other participants contradicted Lerman’s story.
But nothing shows better how pathetic Lerman is than the fact that he didn’t quote the full title of Shepherd’s book, and didn’t link to it, as is the usual practice when you refer to a book. For this reason alone Cif should feel that they owe Shepherd the chance to present his case. And since his topic is really a subject that is so relevant to all Cif I/P debates, they should have asked him for a contribution even without this incident — not to do so, and even reject his request to have a piece now in response to Lerman, is really showing the most unabashed bias.
peter, I have to look up this song you quote — it’s an incredible fit here!!!
October 5, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Demeter
PS to previous message re Goldstone indicting a dead man for war crimes. I didn’t make clear that the man had died before the alleged war crimes were committed.
October 5, 2009 at 3:31 pm
JonathanH
‘Joshua’ posted this on Robin’s thread (there are more great posts there too):
From Walter Scott’s “My Native Land”
“The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour’d, and unsung.”
Joshua says to Robin:
“You should accept his despicable utterances as a mark of distinction. I would feel sick to the pit of my stomach if an individual like Lerman liked me and said nice things about me. This is the price you will pay for defending the Jewish people and the State of Israel. The mamzerim on the left will give you no quarter. They have a hatred for the Jewish state that is beyond all reason and can only be explained by reference to that certain tricky problem that has bedevilled Jews for centuries. And do not be surprised that a particular type of Jew provides cover for the haters for we are well acquainted with them also. From the Jews who gave evidence against their brothers and sisters during the Spanish Inquisition to men like Mordechai Chaim Rumkowski during the Holocaust they have brought much misery and death to our people.
Be of good cheer, however, for the vile few, those Jewish traitors, are hated beyond measure by the vast majority of us. And, in a hundred years time, our descendants will see these people in the footnotes of history books and will offer up that age-old Jewish curse: “May they be blotted out of the book of life.” On the other hand, for the righteous – the Shepherds, the Boltons, the Fallacis – there will be many prayers and much praise. Given that, a lie or two and a little ignominy in the pages of a hateful newspaper like the Guardian is really not very much at all.”
October 5, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Demeter
“….You can draw whatever conclusions you like, but you might reflect whether this kind of approach – which I would characterise, putting it mildly as browbeating – is more or less likely to get you the commission you seek..
This sort of response, with its mixture of childish petulance and nannyish finger wagging is typical of Georgina Henry herself.
Note the dismissive opening – “You can draw whatever conclusions you like…” (and I don’t care).
And where in heaven’s name does she get “commission” from? Who on earth does she think she is? Robin Shepherd is not asking her to commission an article from him – he is simply asking for the right to reply to the defamation of him on CiF!
Were I Georgina Henry I would sue the Charm School and get my money back.
October 5, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Fairplay
Tony Lerman should be flattered to be getting all this attention. Next to Seth Freedman or Ben White, he’s certainly a scholar but I suspect a deeply frustrated one.
He refers to the self-hating Jews in Hapsburg Austro-Hungary around 1900, naming one or two such as Karl Kraus, Sigmund Freud or Otto Weininger. He could have named many many others like Franz Kafka, Arthur Schnitzler, Walter Benjamin or Walter Rathenau. There were various ways of showing Jewish self-hate but a typical manifestation was of ferocious journalistic feuds between assimilated writers of Jewish origin who must have been keenly irritated at seeing their own reflections in the others.
I suspect that Lerman has gone down the route of Norman Finkelstein and the ’sour grapes’ syndrome. Take a look at the output of Professor Robert Wistrich and then compare it to Tony Lerman’s output. If Israel is today’s litmus test for antisemitism, it might equally be the test for a self-hating Jew.
October 5, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Tosca
Did anyone notice Lerman’s “observation” to the effect Zionism could be considered antithetical to Judaism?
Thus does he display his spectacular ignorance of the Jewish religion, for even a cursory reading of the Pentateuch reveals how integral the Land of Israel is to Judaism.
A good example:– Exodus, Cap.6 verse 8, when G-D says to Moses:–
I will bring you into the Land which I swore to give to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and I will give it to you for a heritage (in hebrew the word is “morasha”. I am the Lord.
October 5, 2009 at 10:04 pm
AKUS
First, congratulations to Jonathan Hoffman and CW for this excellent analysis and rebuttal of the flaws in Lerman’s article, and calling him out for his misrepresentations.
For far too long the Guardian, specially through its CiF website and its selectivity and biased moderation policies, has provided a hospitable home to a handful of Jews, self-hating or not, who specialize in “as-a-Jew” hatred of Israel and other Jews. Lerman certainly occupies a senior place in the Guardian’s stable of Jews willing to condemn Israel and other Jews for everything and anything under the sun.
CW is now calling them to account. The Guardian can refuse to allow the alternative opinions of people like Jonathan and the defamed Robin Shepherd to be presented on its web-site – either as a rebuttal piece, or in comments but there are alternative avenues like CW now available to argue the other side of every article. The Guardian can use its banning policies (shades of Apartheid) and deletion of comments not adhering to the GWV to try to silence dissent to present a false view of support for its policies, but this and other sites are now known to provide an alternative view.
This and other websites are returning fire. The Guardian seems uncertain how to deal with this uncomfortable new world, and so calls in one of its house-Jews to fight back – the typical “as-a-Jew” attempt to rebut criticism.
It is my observation that any person who explicitly or implicitly prefaces remarks critical of Israel, Judaism or other Jews “as-a-Jew” is at the very least trying to disassociate him- or herself from the greater Jewish community while claiming to speak in the name of a significant section of that very community. It is a form of cognitive dissonance in which at one and the same time the person is trying to add weight to his or her opinions, while showing non-Jews that he or she is not like “all those other Jews”.
This is clearly observable in the writings of the Guardian’s stable of house-Jews, who may or may not hate themselves (“self-hating Jews”), but certainly hate being associated with the larger community. Ironically, they then form little cliques, usually short-lived, of the small number of Jews in similar situations which they try to present as a majority view of the very community from which they try to distance themselves! example are IJV, J-Street.
Attacking Israel under the cover of speaking “as-a-Jew” thus provides people like Lerman with a perceived – false, really – status that they lack within the Jewish community, where their views are regarded with derision and distaste. In Lerman’s case, I sense an additional thread in his hatred of Israel – and, by the way, I can find no record of him ever being known or admitting to actually having visited Israel. “As-a-Jew”, he fears that the hatred of Israel which he so assiduously helps to whip up will actually endanger him as it the delicate difference he and others try to draw between anti-Zionism and Israel bashing and European anti-Semitism becomes increasingly blurred. Thus he fears the very golem which he is among those trying to create.
Moreover, there is none so fiercely against the source from which he sprang as the apostate. There is a detailed bio on CW at http://cifwatch.com/cif-contributors/antony-lerman/ which documents his early Zionist activities, and how, following rejection by the British Jewish Community and loss of his job (twice!) as Director of the IJPR, he turned against the community and Israel.
This then is the man who decided to write, or was commissioned to write, “as-a-Jew” today’s double-pronged article in the Guardian, attacking Shepherd’s book which he refused to even correctly name, and defending Goldstone and his report on Gaza by claiming that its dismissal was based on attacking Goldstone as a self-hating Jew, rather than the bias and myriad oversights and distortions the report contains..
In taking on the two issues under the guise of writing about the term “self-hating-Jews”, Lerman was the person who chose to ignore the real source of the Jewish aversion to the “self-hating Jew” – the historical examples of Jews who brought ignominy, terror and death down on the communities they left behind. Even in Lerman’s reference to 15th century Spain (“Lord Sacks, Britain’s mainstream Orthodox Chief Rabbi, endorsing the concept [of the self-hating Jew] in his last two books, says it was born in 15th-century Spain.”), he omits to mention the Grand Inquisitor Torquemada who almost certainly came from a family of “conversos” and sought to establish his credibility by the most vicious persecution of “non-believers” – specially or principally, Jews.
Or, in the case of Goldstone, the aversion to the man and his findings due to harsh criticism of Israel from countries in a hypocritical world which, if investigated by a “Goldstone Commission” would occupy so much of its time that Goldstone, in his lifetime, would not get to dealing with a three week military action in Gaza.
I think there can be no better reason to regard the results of the UNHRC Commission inquiry into Gaza as an example of the use made of someone “as-a-Jew” than the fact that it is much more widely known simply as the “Goldstone Commission.” Had it been headed by a representative of one of the disgusting countries that established it, the committee’s report would have been ignored as the biased propaganda even Goldstone’s version is.
Goldstone may not be a self-hating Jew – but he is certainly a Judas sheep, carefully selected “as-a-Jew” to lead a commission so obviously biased in order deliver the “guilty” verdict it was expected to return – and be immune from criticism, since it was headed “by-a-Jew”..
Jews have seen the play being performed by the Guardian, Lerman and a possibly unwitting Goldstone and know where it has led.
October 5, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Wilbur Mitchell
Lerman goes far beyond the selfrighteous know it all attitude of Goldstone. Goldstone is basically an elitist snob. But Lerman sees himself as being one of the few sophisticated Jews in the world. He sees himself, along with Goldstone as the only Jews who can rise above their lousy race or religion. He looks out at the Jewish world and sees Polish green grocers, people with Eastern European accents and that so annoys him. Lerman relishes his fine clipped accent and his well heeled nonJewish friends. He longs for their acceptance.I am sure that Lerman feels most uncomfortable about his last name. Lerman fears that his nonJewish friends will associate him with Israel and Israelis and he strives to rise above all of that. There is no better weapon in the Lerman quiver than the constant sarcastic remarks about Israel. One of the people posting above noted that the brashness and lack of formality of Israelis seems to especially rub Lerman the wrong way. And I suspect that is correct. Lerman sees himself as a man sitting down to tea to discuss literature and fine furniture with important people. In contrast, he sees Israelis as loud and poorly mannered and an affront to him. Otherwise, how could one explain his rather total lack of interest in foreign policy other than his fixation with lambasting Israel at every opportunity. I have never seen a Lerman column about China which has a billion people. Clearly, Tony Lerman is waging a battle with himself.
October 6, 2009 at 12:58 am
JerusalemMite
Chas N-B Entirely on a sidenote, I do think that no Gentile – however pro-Israel – has any business whatsoever accusing any Jewish person of being ‘a self-hating Jew’.
I wonder about that.
If I read offerings from a ‘nominal Christian’ in the UK pointing out all the fallacies implicit in ‘Christian teachings’ and the obvious fallacies of the implementation of those teachings in UK life generally, I may well define him as a ’self hating Christian’. However, I would keep that opinion to myself or perhaps share it with close acquaintances whose opinions and reactions I trusted.
As a Jew, albeit atheist, I would never make those opinions public.
Jonathan Hoffman. This post of yours has ‘bumped’ CIFWatch ‘up’ a few notches.
October 6, 2009 at 5:53 am
Mita
Lerman says of Goldstone “”When the self-hating Jew allegation is levelled at someone with the degree of integrity of Judge Goldstone, who takes such pride in his Jewishness,”"
Does he really care about ”Jewishness” or are his connections with Israel a form of pride befitting his place in society? Is it pride in his Jewishness to ignore the extraordinary lengths that the IDF goes to to avoid civilian deaths? Even if he still intended to find individual soldiers or commanders or units guilty of the crimes he lists a proud Jew would point to the Rules of Engagement and to the measures taken by the army to keep civilians safe and observed pikuah nefesh (saving souls) as we are told to do as Jews.
Why does Lerman find that he has to defend someone who so clearly wishes to do harm to Israel? As StarofDavid pointed out on the thread if Goldstone was what Lerman sees him as why did Meshal or Hanniyeh not question the appointment of a Jew to head the mission?
Mr. Lerman, why did the Muslim bloc at the UN Human Rights Council not denounce the appointment of a Jew, a Zionist no less, to head the mission?
October 6, 2009 at 6:31 am
Dan
“This sort of response, with its mixture of childish petulance and nannyish finger wagging is typical of Georgina Henry herself.”
Matt Seaton is amazingly patronising too. And with so little reason – look what he does for a living and how he goes about it.
October 6, 2009 at 11:18 am
The Guardian, Lerman and Shepherd
[...] is a row brewing at Cifwatch, a website which tracks Comment is Free, about an article by Tony Lerman, whose thesis is set out [...]
October 6, 2009 at 11:23 am
pretzelberg
The link to this thread is called “Institutional antisemitism at the Guardian as it rejects rebuttal piece by Robin Shepherd”.
I would’ve liked to see Robin get a full right to reply, but just because he didn’t is no grounds for screaming “institutional antisemitism.”
What if every single person who felt their views had been distorted or misrepresented on CiF were to be granted an article of their own in response?
For all his many faults, Anthony Lerman has been proved right in his general point by the comments on this very thread. A lot of people above simpy resort to nasty personal slurs against him instead of addressing the actual issues.
October 6, 2009 at 1:18 pm
SilverTrees
pretzelberg, are you actually trying to argue that Comment is Free as an institution is free of antisemitism and that it doesn’t actively facilitate the expression of it below the line?
Have you a fever?
October 6, 2009 at 3:00 pm
pretzelberg
@ SilverTrees
I am not blind. Of course Comment is Free is not “an institution … free of antisemitism” – because it’s part of the WWW and you will sadly always get your hate-mongerers posting there. And let’s face it – we also often see posts alluding to “uncivilized/Nazi Arabs.”
But referring to “Institutional antisemitism at the Guardian” is something different altogether.
If that were the case, how would you explain the many (more than just a token few) Jewish contributors to various areas of the paper and online version – most of which have little to do with Jews and/or Israel?
Yes, I often feel there is overkill on I/P. I consider Richard Silverstein, for example, to be a waste of space. I also feel there is an imbalance of articles.
But on CiF you also see a massive amount of pieces that could be classed as “anti-American” or indeed “anti-British.”
I can understand Israelis feeling “singled-out”, but IMO the situation has more to do with left-wing dogmatism (i.e. a myopic good guy vs. bad guy perspective) than anti-Semitism.
October 6, 2009 at 4:29 pm
SilverTrees
Pretzelberg, aren’t you?
I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you and your attempt to excuse CiF’s bias as some artefact of the www is risible.
Let’s agree that al-Grauniad is terminally confused and that it regularly confuses anti-Zionism with Jew-hatred. As for the Jews who are allowed to write there, I’ve never actually counted them and I’d bet that not one of them is capable of standing up and speaking out in the paper proper against CiF’s obsession with Israel. (If I am wrong about this, then please post a link).
“Overkill” is an unfortunate word, pretzelberg, given that we cannot know yet how many budding jihadis are spurred into action by the anti-Israel filth commissioned by Henry and her coven, which gives permission for the anti-Jewish racism below the line.
And would you be able to point out any pieces on CiF which are even-handed and well-written and which don’t mislead the reader into believing that the author’s burblings are based on hard facts rather than ill-researched matters of opinion? Guardianistas often lose the capability to make the important distinction between opinion and fact – if indeed they ever had it. Again, please post links here.
October 6, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Ariadne
pretzelberg
Sometimes it seems to me you talk sense but here:
What if every single person who felt their views had been distorted or misrepresented on CiF were to be granted an article of their own in response?
The disputed matter is an author’s book: his livelihood. Of how many is that true?
Also:
A lot of people above simpy resort to nasty personal slurs against him instead of addressing the actual issues.
Some people have disapproved of the use of “self-hating”. But Lerman was pointing to Goldstone as a “good” Jew. I do not see how that is possible when Goldstone did not judge, which his experience qualifies him to do, but took the word of one side only, turning himself into a messenger for the utterly corrupt, antisemitic UN.
(I hope the minute amount of HTML works.)
October 7, 2009 at 8:35 pm
AKUS
I’ve been keeping track of events on the “Troublesome Sheikh” thread, contributed by one of Ilan Pappe’s students or colleagues at Exeter, the incongruously named Dumper, which has led to more crap being dumped on his thread than I can ever recall.
The clean-up squad has been busy removing comments, and “disappearing” several.
sydk’s perfectly reasonable objection to the column – after several hours and about 20 -30 recommendations – gone!
Well, he’ll be joining the rest on the bright side (here) pretty soon at that rate.
When I looked at about 4:30 pm US time, there were, I think, 88 comments – now there are 82.
Poof – 6 comments vanished into the ether.
The amount of sheer ignorance and rubbish posted by the Israel bashers on that thread has reached a new high (or low).
(I just hope this time I get the blockquote thing right!!)
Inability to distibguish between Al Aksa and the Dome of the Rock by someone who has never been to jerusalem but knows all about it:
a claim that Al Aksa had been destroyed by Jews,
a claim that it was NOT destroyed because of the sheikh’s defence of the mosque,
a claim showing how Israel destroys the holy places of other religions by claiming the temple was built after the conquest of the Canaanites -(I’m not making this up!!):
Claims that Israel had denied the sheikh a Nobel prize to avoid recognition of islamic scientific advances (Gareth100 again):
The usual veiled threat of further Moslem violence:
a claim that Israel created the failed Palestinian state by a resident Israeli Communist:
a claim that Israel should have added 850,000 North African Jewish men, women, and children to its armed forces in the 1950’s:
and for the cherry on the cake just as the thread closed (probably the moderators couldn’t get off the floor for laughing), talknic shows up:
pokingpinocchio
07 Oct 09, 7:26pm (about 6 hours ago)
——–
So, to round it out, since the thread about the sheik also raised questions about why he isn’t given a Nobel prize, here’s something from my mailbox:
The world again ignores Islamic achievements
Once again the world has discriminated against the peace-loving Moslems by not awarding them a Nobel prize and giving it instead to a right-wing fascist settler colonialist from the Weizman Institute, Israeli Ada Yonath:
STOCKHOLM — Two Americans and an Israeli scientist won the 2009 Nobel Prize in chemistry on Wednesday for atom-by-atom mapping of the protein-making factories within cells – a feat that has spurred the development of antibiotics.
What about the Islamic advances in the chemistry of bomb making, huh??? Is that nothing??? Don’t forget that Islam invented algebra, which this Zionist stooge probably used when she copied her “discovery”, which was actually reported by Al-Bio-Khemia in 1497.
Why does the world always ignore Islam’s achievements? Don’t be surprised if there are massive reprisals by rightfully indignant Moslems against the world’s Zionist paymasters. I wouldn’t visit Oslo any time soon if I were you!!
October 7, 2009 at 8:39 pm
AKUS
Hi pretzel – good to see you also joining the fray here.
You had some pretty good comments on the ridiculous postings on the “sheikh” thread.
October 8, 2009 at 2:36 pm
SilverTrees
AKUS, you forgot another first from a Muslim, an Islamist who should receive a Darwin award for selflessly taking his genes out of the gene pool, one Abdullah Hassan Taleh al-Asiri (and note the last name).
This priceless twerp shoved explosives up his backside and tried to bump off (or should I say “bum” off?) one of the Saudi princes. Al-Asiri was not a pretty site, according to the reports but the Saudi prince was shocked more than injured.
Al-Asiri was recruited by al-Qaeda. In his photograph on Internet Haganah he looked, (how should we put it?) a bit lacking. I wonder whether he was a thoroughgoing pest, too. I ask myself this because, shame on me(!), I could imagine him asking his handlers for the nth time, “What did you say I should do with the explosives again?” and they finally answering “Oh shove them up your a**!”
October 8, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Ariadne
A technical question: does anyone else find it difficult to read the text within a block quote? I find it very faint against the white background.